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post #71 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechtech View Post

Arma 2 is THE realistic combat simulator. If you didn't know what you were getting into, I'm sorry.
It's not built to be a game, it's built to be a simulator, like a flight sim, and it's a damn good one at that.
Real war isn't about how accurate you shoot your AR or how many people you kill. It's entirely about cover fire and suppression, tactics, strategy, and most importantly, communication and intel. Most battles are over before they begin. The goal of almost all ground battles is not to kill enemies, it's to take an objective. If you pull in the right way and get the enemy to retreat from the target area, that's a much better victory than a bloody firefight.

I do admit that I have not played most of the games discussed with these types of reports. Im just pointing out that most of the time, its games with less than stellar reviews and several issues to them usually.
    
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post #72 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post

I'm sure if you could write a logical retort on them you would.
I actually already addressed this but let me break it down for you. Over the years I've been quite surprised how lacking OCN is when it comes to an understanding of simple econ and business.
  1. It is always bad logic to point to an exception, an abnormality and call it the norm. As i stated before, Minecraft could ONLY exist as an abnormality because of the niche it fills. Part of the charm of Minecraft is the simplistic graphics, but in no way would PC gamers stand for multiple games taking that same route. How many pre-2000 era graphical games with no plot or endgame do you think gamers would accept before the 'genre' gets ignored? My bet is on 1. Hell, it's yet to be seen if PC gamers will even pick up a 2nd installment of Minecraft.
    Drawing any type of conclusion for the entire industry based on this 1 game is about as pointless as devs looking at the market needs by copying the popularity and success of casual games like Peggle.
  2. If you understand how 2000-ish the graphics in Minecraft are, then you can understand how easy it would be for a small team to create it. Minecraft probably requires 1/100th of what a game like Crysis 2 does. The market right now dictates that it wants current graphics. The PC market in particular is incredibly vocal, whiny and irate if certain franchises don't deliver something cutting edge. Cutting edge requires hundreds of thousands of man hours.
    And, as stated above, Minecraft struck lightning. There's no indication that enough gamers would be open to anything similar in any capacity. One game that bucks the current trends is great. If anything, you should be happy that other major devs HAVEN'T tried to cash in on the Minecraft craze.
  3. Part of pointing at examples and saying 'so and so did it, why can't they?!' is that you ignore the fact that not everyone gets rewarded for their hard work. Over the last 20 yrs, many devs have put out wonderful games and still not sold enough to break even. Many have copied trends, like what you're suggesting now, only to find that the sub-genre only has room for 1 or 2 games. Many have CREATED a sub-genre and found out that stagnation kills.
    If you're going to go around pointing to Minecraft as an example that the big devs can follow, you have to accept the ENTIRE scenario, not just 1 or 2 parts of it, and as stated before, the conditions that make Minecraft a hit will NOT translate well if there are attempts to mimic it.

All I hear from you is that you care more about graphics and end-game than anything else. Good for you. Minecraft actually has an endgame now just so you know.

For the rest of the world, that may or may not be as big of an issue as you think. Many gamers still play old games with absolutely terrible graphics by today's standards, or sandbox games with no real goals. Indie games with terrible graphics sell great constantly.

You know why? Because it DOESN'T'T TAKE 1000 PEOPLE TO MAKE A FUN GAME. Yes, making a game look like Crysis means putting more into it than making it look like minecraft, but if a large publisher were to back a game with heart and soul and actually inciting gameplay like the indie dev's, and dev's of the past put out, it could easily have those great graphics as well.

But hey, if you wanna be a faux econ professional, hold your nose high, and scoff at anyone who suggests people break from the stagnant, boring, regressive "norm" you hold so dear, be my guest. The rest of us will move on eventually.
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post #73 of 77
Its funny all the companies keep blaming piracy once and again, yet they still insist in using useless DRM models. GET REAL: DRM will only piss off your legit customers because EVERY SINGLE GAME HAS BEEN PIRATED. So, what about not including DRM and selling the game at a lesser price? What about launching FINISHED products?

Its very easy to blame us users when actually none of the games are done by launch date and need tons of patches, for a product that has already been launched. What would happen if all the single cars that were manufactured needed repairs? And what about computers?

They seriously need to stop pointing their fingers at us, and start looking themselves on a mirror, they may find out whats wrong and they will see its not us, its them.

Signed, a disappointed customer who is tired of paying for unfinished products and DRM's that give me hell every time. Stupid companies...
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post #74 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyMoose View Post

Wow that's crazy! I didn't realize how many people pirated that stuff 0.0
Well they always blow it out of proportion and China has stolen copies littered all over. The real question is of those 100 "failed attempts" how many would actually pay for it if they had too? I also blame the economy to some degree.....even myself fall under this. With the future unknown I spend less money on games and buy the $5 specials on steam instead. The biggest person is the developer....many titles have proven that when the game is good the sales will follow. Look at minecraft....millions pirate it but over 4 million have bought it too. Other indie developers have proven that when you make a game proper and treat your customer base like buyers and not thieves the game thrives.


This is where many companies went wrong because the all mighty $ is more important. I can earn $50 today instead of $60 in 3 days.
Edited by Twist86 - 11/21/11 at 12:03pm
    
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post #75 of 77
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FADE
this is literally the best system I have ever seen for DRM, as long as there is a patch for no cd required then I am fine.
but this whole piracy is ruining businesses is getting annoying. I want far cry 3 and the new rainbow six but if Ubisoft does that DRM stuff then more games I will not be able to play. my internet is horrible, it would be pointless to even try for a game I paid for
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post #76 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

All I hear from you is that you care more about graphics and end-game than anything else. Good for you.

That's funny, because if you've ever read one of my posts over the last 2 years you'd know that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm one of the most vocal opponents of the OCN posters who care more about the Dx version, benchmarks and 100% usage on their tri-fire than they do about the gameplay.

Still, you're delusional if you think that graphics don't matter at all. One look at the nerdrage released against recent games like Crysis 2 or RAGE would tell you that. Take a look at the hate MW3 gets b/c it focuses on the fun more than the graphics. So yes, it's great that Minecraft can entertain with pre-2000 graphics but if you think any major devs can get away with that, then you're just ignoring the overwhelming evidence.

Having said that, as long as graphics are current, i think many people would come to love a 'middle of the road'-graphical game if it meant awesome gameplay.....Deus Ex:HR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

Minecraft actually has an endgame now just so you know.

Is it 80 hrs of digging and moat making? What's the plot? Now just to be clear, I love SimCity. I used to nerd out to it as a kid. Never would i suggest that other devs start copying it b/c what SimCity is doesn't translate well to other games. Same for Minecraft.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

For the rest of the world, that may or may not be as big of an issue as you think. Many gamers still play old games with absolutely terrible graphics by today's standards, or sandbox games with no real goals. Indie games with terrible graphics sell great constantly.

Do you quite grasp the concept that those aren't really sub-genres that are able to be successfully mimicked? Your entire argument is circular. You point to Minecraft as an example of a dev who does x. I say x would not be applied well to the entire market as a whole based on the vast majority of people's buying habits. You point to Minecraft as an example of a dev who is successful doing x.

I don't deny that Minecraft is a success story but I challenge the idea that you can point to Minecraft as an example of what the industry needs to do when it comes to indie devs/dev cost/piracy. Let the makers of Minecraft put a FEW hits under their belt before you start worshiping them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

You know why? Because it DOESN'T'T TAKE 1000 PEOPLE TO MAKE A FUN GAME. Yes, making a game look like Crysis means putting more into it than making it look like minecraft, but if a large publisher were to back a game with heart and soul and actually inciting gameplay like the indie dev's, and dev's of the past put out, it could easily have those great graphics as well.

There will always be artists that are more for the art than the money and vice versa but quit pretending that you know where that line is drawn. 100's of hours of work don't just get done b/c you care about something and as much as you might want to perfect your work, bills still need to get paid. I don't quite understand your point that because someone made a simple sandbox game with pre-2000's graphics, no plot and no storyline, that somehow everyone else is slacking. How do you get from A to B on that one?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

But hey, if you wanna be a faux econ professional
No, i just understand that the market conditions would not support Minecraft clones and that in this global depression, developers aren't going to waste the resources to try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

hold your nose high
If you can't take the heat, get out the kitchen. Don't dish out attitude and then cry when you get it thrown back at you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

and scoff at anyone who suggests people break from the stagnant, boring, regressive "norm" you hold so dear, be my guest. The rest of us will move on eventually.

I think maybe you're projecting emotions onto me or something b/c I think indie devs are great. I like 'out of the box' ideas. While i don't play Minecraft, i like the fact that it's doing well. I want devs to be more original and to break from the mold.

That's not what I'm arguing against. What I'm arguing against is the simple minded idea that many variables that factored into the success of Minecraft is like a lightbulb that can be turned on and off whenever someone just puts a little 'heart' into it. MANY devs have 'out of the box' projects that are cancelled before you even hear about it b/c there are so many variables at play. Cost. Dev time. Resource management. Plot. Graphics. And most importantly, if the ideas that are wonderful on paper translate to wonderful in the game. In fact, I'm going to bet that the makers of Minecraft themselves will have a tough time recapturing that magic.
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 11/22/11 at 12:29am
    
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post #77 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyMoose View Post

Wow that's crazy! I didn't realize how many people pirated that stuff 0.0

Probably because they don't.

The number of pirates is certainly more than the number of legitimate purchasers. However, for every 20-100 failed attempts to connect with a pirated copy is one person with a keygen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robwadeson View Post

isn't pirating what has killed pc gaming?

No, but between bad games and worse DRM, publishers are trying as hard as they can to finish off PC gaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by robwadeson View Post

But at the same time there really isn't a way to stop piracy. People say don't put DRM and make a good game people won't pirate it. To my knowledge so far, there hasn't been a single shred of evidence. Again that just means I don't know of any there very well maybe proof. But in my opinion why buy something when I can get it for free? Of course that has ramification down the road. But people don't usually think ahead they think of now. And right now they want the game.

No one with any sense says people won't pirate good games without DRM.

However, DRM free games are not pirated any less, and good games are purchased more. Well priced games are purchased even more.

A pirated copy is not a lost sale, because most pirates would never consider paying asking price for the software. There are some exceptions but in general, they either get it for free, or they go without. DRM is at best a waste of publisher money, and at worst the cause of lost sales.

I would buy ten times as many games if they had no DRM or less restrictive DRM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post

If a game isn't good, then why bother to pirate it?

Bad games still sell copies. I never preorder anything, and do my best to read reviews and get first had experiences on games I buy, and I've still unwittingly bought games that turned out to be pretty terrible (and obviously could not return).

I know people who pirate games they are unlikely to ever attempt to install, let alone try to play. Many of them know this and download them anyway, because it's faster, easier, and more convenient than buying the game from anywhere, even Steam, and they will have it on the off chance they decide to look into it further.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

Its funny all the companies keep blaming piracy once and again, yet they still insist in using useless DRM models. GET REAL: DRM will only piss off your legit customers because EVERY SINGLE GAME HAS BEEN PIRATED. So, what about not including DRM and selling the game at a lesser price? What about launching FINISHED products?
Its very easy to blame us users when actually none of the games are done by launch date and need tons of patches, for a product that has already been launched. What would happen if all the single cars that were manufactured needed repairs? And what about computers?
They seriously need to stop pointing their fingers at us, and start looking themselves on a mirror, they may find out whats wrong and they will see its not us, its them.
Signed, a disappointed customer who is tired of paying for unfinished products and DRM's that give me hell every time. Stupid companies...

Couldn't agree more.
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