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Razer Abyssus vs Verbatim Rapier V2

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
Hi all,
was planning on chucking my current mouse and keyboard(relic) and moving to a wireless combo. Too many wires and cables cluttering my room plus the fact that a wireless combo gives you more freedom to move around had led me to nearly purchasing the Logitech MK260 combo. But reading around the internet about lag response and what not plus the need to recharge or change batteries regularly made me second guess my decision. Since i game a fair bit and was planning on changing my K+M anyway, i thought maybe it would be wiser getting something better-especially the mouse- than the run of the mill rodent that i have used since i first started playing video games. So i came across the usual suspects like Logitech MX518 and G400 - both of which are currently unavailable at the place i plan on purchasing from. A little more digging around led me to these.

Verbatim Rapier V2:
http://www.verbatim.com.au/en_AU/products/accessories/mice/49050/gaming-mouse-rapier-v2]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verbatim-49050-Rapier-Laser-Gaming/dp/B001GNCA3U]

Good reviews mostly, laser mouse, adjustable weights, 3600dpi, 7 programmable buttons etc. Its roughly around $25.

there's also a V1 which is slightly more expensive and unorthodox in design.
http://www.verbatim.com.au/en_AU/products/accessories/mice/49051/gaming-mouse-rapier-v1]
Not sure about the whole scroll on the left button thing.

I was planning on combining that with a basic Logitech USB keyboard which will bring the amount to approx. $32-$35.


Razer Cyclosa Bundle:( Cyclosa keyboard and Abyssus Mouse)

comes to around $40 bundle.

http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169414800]
http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Abyssus-Precision-Optical-Gaming/dp/B002XLR0JI]

The Razer name, infrared mouse, 3500dpi but no extra buttons.

So which pairing would the experienced folks here recommend? Since the mouse purchase is a higher priority for me should i go with the brand name or go with the one with more features? Or should i wait to see if the Logitech ones are back in stock? Is it worth getting the Razer combo just for the better keyboard?
I don't have the budget nor am i interested in purchasing anything much more expensive especially since i don't play much MP. Something in this price range will do me just fine. Any other recommendations are welcome as long as it doesn't cost me more than what i paid for my processor tongue.gif

PS: Got a couple more questions and would really appreciate someone clearing up my doubts. Forgive me for their noobish nature as i am totally inexperienced with gaming mice and keyboards so here goes...
1-what exactly do macro programmable keys do? i searched a bit but i couldn't exactly wrap my head around the idea as unlike some of the expensive keyboards i didn't see any extra buttons on the Cyclosa keyboard. Can someone explain it in slightly more layman terms?
2-The Verbatim mouse has 7 programmable buttons including the scroll ones on the side. Correct me if i am wrong but the extra buttons can be assigned like we assign Mouse2, Mouse2, Mouse3 right? I am confused because one of the buttons adjusts the dpi settings which can be set on the fly while gaming but if that's whats its going to do then it cannot be assigned to an in-game setting can it? Its just doing what its supposed to out of the box isn't it?

Hoping for some feedback soon as i need to place an order in the next couple of days particularly since the Verbatim mouse was also out of stock and was just recently restocked and might disappear again. Thanks.
post #2 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilanth View Post

Hi all,
was planning on chucking my current mouse and keyboard(relic) and moving to a wireless combo. Too many wires and cables cluttering my room plus the fact that a wireless combo gives you more freedom to move around had led me to nearly purchasing the Logitech MK260 combo. But reading around the internet about lag response and what not plus the need to recharge or change batteries regularly made me second guess my decision. Since i game a fair bit and was planning on changing my K+M anyway, i thought maybe it would be wiser getting something better-especially the mouse- than the run of the mill rodent that i have used since i first started playing video games. So i came across the usual suspects like Logitech MX518 and G400 - both of which are currently unavailable at the place i plan on purchasing from. A little more digging around led me to these.
Verbatim Rapier V2:
http://www.verbatim.com.au/en_AU/products/accessories/mice/49050/gaming-mouse-rapier-v2]
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Verbatim-49050-Rapier-Laser-Gaming/dp/B001GNCA3U]
Good reviews mostly, laser mouse, adjustable weights, 3600dpi, 7 programmable buttons etc. Its roughly around $25.
there's also a V1 which is slightly more expensive and unorthodox in design.
http://www.verbatim.com.au/en_AU/products/accessories/mice/49051/gaming-mouse-rapier-v1]
Not sure about the whole scroll on the left button thing.
I was planning on combining that with a basic Logitech USB keyboard which will bring the amount to approx. $32-$35.
Razer Cyclosa Bundle:( Cyclosa keyboard and Abyssus Mouse)
comes to around $40 bundle.
http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.169414800]
http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Abyssus-Precision-Optical-Gaming/dp/B002XLR0JI]
The Razer name, infrared mouse, 3500dpi but no extra buttons.
So which pairing would the experienced folks here recommend? Since the mouse purchase is a higher priority for me should i go with the brand name or go with the one with more features? Or should i wait to see if the Logitech ones are back in stock? Is it worth getting the Razer combo just for the better keyboard?
I don't have the budget nor am i interested in purchasing anything much more expensive especially since i don't play much MP. Something in this price range will do me just fine. Any other recommendations are welcome as long as it doesn't cost me more than what i paid for my processor tongue.gif
PS: Got a couple more questions and would really appreciate someone clearing up my doubts. Forgive me for their noobish nature as i am totally inexperienced with gaming mice and keyboards so here goes...
1-what exactly do macro programmable keys do? i searched a bit but i couldn't exactly wrap my head around the idea as unlike some of the expensive keyboards i didn't see any extra buttons on the Cyclosa keyboard. Can someone explain it in slightly more layman terms?
2-The Verbatim mouse has 7 programmable buttons including the scroll ones on the side. Correct me if i am wrong but the extra buttons can be assigned like we assign Mouse2, Mouse2, Mouse3 right? I am confused because one of the buttons adjusts the dpi settings which can be set on the fly while gaming but if that's whats its going to do then it cannot be assigned to an in-game setting can it? Its just doing what its supposed to out of the box isn't it?
Hoping for some feedback soon as i need to place an order in the next couple of days particularly since the Verbatim mouse was also out of stock and was just recently restocked and might disappear again. Thanks.

I don't think that Vebratim has really the CPI they advertise, I bet is interpolated from 2000 CPI, Avago 6010.
I would go for the Abyssus alone (or a Death Adder if you like side buttons). That keyboard is just a generic overpriced product so I would save a little money for a Black Widow or another mechanical keyboard (when you try one you'll now what the real deal is).
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post #3 of 18
ive been through many different high end mice, and the abyssus does it for me. im currently using it for dota 2 and BF3, and ive not had any issues with it at all. honestly though, i think the abyssus is a bit overpriced for what it is. but it has served me very well over the past year, so i guess its worth it redface.gif
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post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZareliMan View Post

I don't think that Vebratim has really the CPI they advertise, I bet is interpolated from 2000 CPI, Avago 6010.
I would go for the Abyssus alone (or a Death Adder if you like side buttons). That keyboard is just a generic overpriced product so I would save a little money for a Black Widow or another mechanical keyboard (when you try one you'll now what the real deal is).

Nope. STMicroelectronics VT5366 ;D
post #5 of 18
You don't have to spend any money to get a good mouse. Quake Love and Counter-Suck professionals are often relying on the $13 Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical or $20 Microsoft Intellimouse "girl next door" Explorer 3.0. The MX518s, Zowie EC2s, Abyssuses and such are all affordable and work better than most mice that cost more than they. More expensive mice have gimmicks, not features. So don't feel like you're buying budget products. You could be buying the best of the best.

what exactly do macro programmable keys do?
A macro is basically where you bind multiple actions to one key press. For example, if you're sniping in Crysis, you have to switch out of invisibility mode before you shoot (to conserve energy). Then you have to switch back into invisibility mode. What a macro lets you do is bind all of these actions to one key. It doesn't have to be an extra key. It could be the 'P' key, or the 'M' or whatever you feel comfortable reaching towards.

The Verbatim mouse has 7 programmable buttons including the scroll ones on the side. Correct me if i am wrong but the extra buttons can be assigned like we assign Mouse2, Mouse2, Mouse3 right?
I think this varies from product to product. Some mice let you do this while others don't.

I definitely recommend one of the WMO, IMO or IME 3.0 over the Verbatim Mouse because that mouse's max tracking speed is just one meter per second, which is too low. The Abyssus would be perfect if it had two side buttons, but as is, it's no better than a $13 WMO.

Here you go, buddy. Two sexy mice on the left and one fat brick on the right.

dsc00027qw.jpg
Edited by cuad - 11/20/11 at 8:35pm
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post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 
first of all thanks for all the replies everyone
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZareliMan View Post

I don't think that Vebratim has really the CPI they advertise, I bet is interpolated from 2000 CPI, Avago 6010.
I would go for the Abyssus alone (or a Death Adder if you like side buttons). That keyboard is just a generic overpriced product so I would save a little money for a Black Widow or another mechanical keyboard (when you try one you'll now what the real deal is).
Problem is i can't get the Abyssus alone, its bundled with that keyboard. Anyways how much should the CPI be for a decent gaming mouse? Have heard a lot about mechanical keyboards and might get one in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade616 View Post

ive been through many different high end mice, and the abyssus does it for me. im currently using it for dota 2 and BF3, and ive not had any issues with it at all. honestly though, i think the abyssus is a bit overpriced for what it is. but it has served me very well over the past year, so i guess its worth it redface.gif
So you would rate if better than the MX518 or G400 which are slightly cheaper and have extra buttons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Nope. STMicroelectronics VT5366 ;D
Sorry didn't get you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuad View Post

You don't have to spend any money to get a good mouse. Quake Love and Counter-Suck professionals are often relying on the $13 Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical or $20 Microsoft Intellimouse "girl next door" Explorer 3.0. The MX518s, Zowie EC2s, Abyssuses and such are all affordable and work better than most mice that cost more than they. More expensive mice have gimmicks, not features. So don't feel like you're buying budget products. You could be buying the best of the best.
what exactly do macro programmable keys do?
A macro is basically where you bind multiple actions to one key press. For example, if you're sniping in Crysis, you have to switch out of invisibility mode before you shoot (to conserve energy). Then you have to switch back into invisibility mode. What a macro lets you do is bind all of these actions to one key. It doesn't have to be an extra key. It could be the 'P' key, or the 'M' or whatever you feel comfortable reaching towards.
The Verbatim mouse has 7 programmable buttons including the scroll ones on the side. Correct me if i am wrong but the extra buttons can be assigned like we assign Mouse2, Mouse2, Mouse3 right?
I think this varies from product to product. Some mice let you do this while others don't.
I definitely recommend one of the WMO, IMO or IME 3.0 over the Verbatim Mouse because that mouse's max tracking speed is just one meter per second, which is too low. The Abyssus would be perfect if it had two side buttons, but as is, it's no better than a $13 WMO.
Here you go, buddy. Two sexy mice on the left and one fat brick on the right.
dsc00027qw.jpg

Thanks man..that was very well explained..appreciate it. smile.gif
Checked the prices of the Microsoft mice here and the ime 3.0 is more expensive than both the Abyssus and the Rapier.

You were saying the max tracking speed of the V2 is just 1m/sec..so how much should it be then? Also are the lack of side buttons a big disadvantage because my whole idea of getting a gaming mouse was so that i could assign the extra buttons esp the side ones because then i would have easier access to keys particularly in a chaotic situation instead of having to stretch across the keyboard for buttons like N,H and Y.

How about the G400 compared to the Abyssus and the MS mice if and when it becomes available to me?
post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylit View Post

Nope. STMicroelectronics VT5366 ;D

don't know about rapier v2 (have owned it, but never opened it up), but rapier v1 has avago adns-6090. i am 100% positive about that because i own it too, and did a quick disassembly:), so the dpi isn't interpolated.

i did find something very interesting while testing rapier v1 with enotus, the max speed isn't constant. for 400 dpi it's 2.6m/s, for 800dpi 2.06 m/s, for 1200dpi 1.56 m/s, for 1600dpi 1.05 m/s... dpi switches in 400 steps, 500hz polling rate. liftoff distance aprox 2 cd's.

i wouldn't however recommend either of these two mice. v2 has the sensor off center (in a very much bad way), massive prediction, if u squezed it hard it would brake (well this is true for razer mice also:), and the bump at the back makes it hard to grip and use. the v1 is much much smaller than the v2, the build quality it considerably better, and the mouse wheel placement on the left side of the mouse isn't actually the worst idea ever. however, it fails big time in the button switch department, they are very stiff, and not pleasant at all. the placement of side buttons has left something to be desired also, because i find myself constantly struggling to place my thumb for a proper grip with out accidentally pressing them.

i got them both for about 13 dollars (v1 was a bit cheaper), and paying more fot them would be more than nonsense.
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post #8 of 18
Yes I was quoting USA prices unfortunately.

If you move your mouse faster than its maximum tracking speed you get negative accel (bad). If you move it fast enough, then the mouse stops tracking. So you want the max tracking speed to be higher than the fastest speed that you move your mouse while gaming. I don't know what speed that is, tho.

Lack of side buttons would be a huge disadvantage in a game like Crysis while lack of side buttons in a game like Quake Live wouldn't hinder you, so it depends.

The G400 is a little heavy (for me) at 105g, but its tracking speeds are higher than the Microsoft mice (on par with the Abyssus) and it offers an ~800 CPI step while the Abyssus and Microsoft mice don't. If you want a G400 but don't want to wait for it, you can try to find a Logitech MX518 which is the same mouse. The G400/MX518 has higher levels of prediction than the Abyssus or Microsoft mice.

Prediction is this thing that all mice do where they try to force straight lines. Some mice do it more than others. Observe:

predictionfn3.jpg

It's up to you to decide whether it's bad or negligible.
Edited by cuad - 11/21/11 at 1:22am
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post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by obi.van.kenobi View Post

don't know about rapier v2 (have owned it, but never opened it up), but rapier v1 has avago adns-6090. i am 100% positive about that because i own it too, and did a quick disassembly:), so the dpi isn't interpolated.
i did find something very interesting while testing rapier v1 with enotus, the max speed isn't constant. for 400 dpi it's 2.6m/s, for 800dpi 2.06 m/s, for 1200dpi 1.56 m/s, for 1600dpi 1.05 m/s... dpi switches in 400 steps, 500hz polling rate. liftoff distance aprox 2 cd's.
i wouldn't however recommend either of these two mice. v2 has the sensor off center (in a very much bad way), massive prediction, if u squezed it hard it would brake (well this is true for razer mice also:), and the bump at the back makes it hard to grip and use. the v1 is much much smaller than the v2, the build quality it considerably better, and the mouse wheel placement on the left side of the mouse isn't actually the worst idea ever. however, it fails big time in the button switch department, they are very stiff, and not pleasant at all. the placement of side buttons has left something to be desired also, because i find myself constantly struggling to place my thumb for a proper grip with out accidentally pressing them.
i got them both for about 13 dollars (v1 was a bit cheaper), and paying more fot them would be more than nonsense.

Ok so $20 odd for the V1 and $30 for the V2 is a rip off then? But believe me when i tell you these are the cheapest prices i am quoting. Other places all the mice i have mentioned are more expensive especially the Abyssus and the Logitech ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuad View Post

Yes I was quoting USA prices unfortunately.
If you move your mouse faster than its maximum tracking speed you get negative accel (bad). If you move it fast enough, then the mouse stops tracking. So you want the max tracking speed to be higher than the fastest speed that you move your mouse while gaming. I don't know what speed that is, tho.
Lack of side buttons would be a huge disadvantage in a game like Crysis while lack of side buttons in a game like Quake Live wouldn't hinder you, so it depends.
The G400 is a little heavy (for me) at 105g, but its tracking speeds are higher than the Microsoft mice (on par with the Abyssus) and it offers an ~800 CPI step while the Abyssus and Microsoft mice don't. If you want a G400 but don't want to wait for it, you can try to find a Logitech MX518 which is the same mouse. The G400/MX518 has higher levels of prediction than the Abyssus or Microsoft mice.
Prediction is this thing that all mice do where they try to force straight lines. Some mice do it more than others. Observe:
predictionfn3.jpg
It's up to you to decide whether it's bad or negligible.

Again thanks for more mouse knowledge..i did learn quite a few mouse terminologies today thumb.gif
Where did you get that pic? biggrin.gif How bad is mouse prediction when it comes to gaming?
I know a bit about the illustrious history of MX518 but like i said both that and the G400 are currently unavailable.
Is the G400 much better than the MX518?
Btw should the whole laser(Rapier V1/V2) vs optical(MX518/G400) vs infrared(Abyssus) have much significance in my decision?
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by obi.van.kenobi View Post

don't know about rapier v2 (have owned it, but never opened it up), but rapier v1 has avago adns-6090. i am 100% positive about that because i own it too, and did a quick disassembly:), so the dpi isn't interpolated.
i did find something very interesting while testing rapier v1 with enotus, the max speed isn't constant. for 400 dpi it's 2.6m/s, for 800dpi 2.06 m/s, for 1200dpi 1.56 m/s, for 1600dpi 1.05 m/s... dpi switches in 400 steps, 500hz polling rate. liftoff distance aprox 2 cd's.
i wouldn't however recommend either of these two mice. v2 has the sensor off center (in a very much bad way), massive prediction, if u squezed it hard it would brake (well this is true for razer mice also:), and the bump at the back makes it hard to grip and use. the v1 is much much smaller than the v2, the build quality it considerably better, and the mouse wheel placement on the left side of the mouse isn't actually the worst idea ever. however, it fails big time in the button switch department, they are very stiff, and not pleasant at all. the placement of side buttons has left something to be desired also, because i find myself constantly struggling to place my thumb for a proper grip with out accidentally pressing them.
i got them both for about 13 dollars (v1 was a bit cheaper), and paying more fot them would be more than nonsense.

The v1 might have used a 6090, but the specs match up to a ST VT5366 on the V2.

http://www.verbatim.com.au/en_AU/products/accessories/mice/49050/gaming-mouse-rapier-v2%5D
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/152672/STMICROELECTRONICS/VT5366.html

Considering you've stated that the v2 had massive prediction, there's no doubt in my mind. Same sensor as the Kinzu V1 with a "laser" light source. Technically similar to Avago's "laser" mice tongue.gif


Edit: http://www.verbatim.com.au/en_AU/products/accessories/mice/49051/gaming-mouse-rapier-v1

Yeah, v1 is def a 6090 biggrin.gif

Quote:

Sorry didn't get you.

Avoid the mouse. Sensor isn't the greatest.

Where do you live and what's the most you want to spend?
Edited by Skylit - 11/21/11 at 7:56am
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