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[MacRumors] More Claims of a 2048x1536 Resolution iPad 3 Display - Page 13

post #121 of 217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

First off, you didn't watch the videos.
Second, if you watched the videos, you would have seen the graphical enhancements and CPU usage that was associated with it. We already see applications for Tegra 3 that utilize both the CPU and GPU to its full potential; saturating its resources. We see fluid frame transitions, full physics APIs, realistic lighting effects, etc. As opposed to the iPad2, we saw a bit less texture compression, slightly sharper image, and minor tweaks here and there. Either the GPU in the iPad2 is not as good as synthetic benchmarks show or it's true that Apple is unable to saturate their CPU/GPU resources from launch. Nvidia can.
Anyways, go troll somewhere else.
1) Those demos (and I emphasize demos) are impressive but you said they were available upon release.

2) Unreal tweaked Infinity Blade to make it look a little better. Infinity Blade 2 on the other hand is going to be outright amazing, in fact they even claimed they've implemented lighting effects (or techniques) that even consoles have yet to see. They said at the 4S Keynote that with Infinity Blade they focused on character detail, but with the 4S they can do the same with environment.

Can you really tell me how far in development these games are? It's taken about six months for Unreal to release Infinity Blade 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

^It's not 4:3 it's 16:10 (I think). More vertical pixels is more useful for everything besides watching movies, I'm all for it. I wish they would have kept 16:10 for laptops too, I want my vertical pixels back!
1024x768 is reasonable, but 2048x1536 just sounds excessive and pointless to me. I mean, people debate whether 1080p really matters on a 15" laptop!
Actually, it is 4:3.

On a 15 inch laptop 1080p is 145 PPI vs 132 PPI for 1050p and 110 PPI for 900p. On the iPad 3, you'll be looking at a PPI of 263. It'll look stunning, just like on the iPhone 4... that's the whole point of it.
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post #122 of 217
Here's my two cents. Sorry if it's a bit disarrayed; I haven't slept in a long time.

My guess on a ultra-high resolution, not gonna happen.

Sure it is technically possible, but it would wreck Apple's platform.

Apple is trying to keep the mobile game market. This will not be possible with a screen packing so many pixels. Apple spent bucketloads more money on A5 silicon than any other tablet maker to date (the chip is 122.2 mm^2 vs 49 mm^2 for Tegra 2). These costs would go up again while providing little increase in performance.

A 4x increase in pixels will require many changes to the chip architecture resulting in huge power increases. The first obvious change is moving from 2x SGX543 to 8x just to keep the same user experience. To get a better user experience would require even more modules (limit is 16). A competitor could use a similar chip with a 720p resolution and stomp the ipad's gaming performance or provide an identical gaming experience and two or three times the battery life. It doesn't matter how efficient the OS is at powersaving in compute intensive tasks; when a huge chip goes all out, it uses more power than a smaller chip going all out.

The next problem is VRAM, Apple would have to increase video RAM by several times in order to compensate for the higher resolution. Once again, this comes with increased power due to more RAM, faster RAM, wider RAM bus, larger IMC, etc.

The next problem is moving to quad-core. I don't see this as too important in the near future, but it is VERY important when marketing. This increase will also add to die size and chip complexity (and increase maximum power consumption). The (very much overdue) addition of main memory will also affect battery life (note: I think that Apple will add 2GB instead of 1GB).

Bad battery life or game performance (compared to next-gen competitors) could deal an unrecoverable blow to Apple's still-emerging tablet market. Such risks are unnecessary when an ultra-high res tablet doesn't look too different from 18 inches. It is also worth noting that the only early 2012 next-gen architecture launching is Qualcomm's Krait. Then next one is OMAP's A15 in late 2012-early 2013.

If TI is the launch partner for ARM for the A15, I doubt that Apple would be able to launch earlier. An A15 would be necessary in order to push information to the graphics system quickly enough, resulting in an unacceptable early-mid 2013 launch of the ipad 3. This leaves two options: quad-core A9 ala Tegra 3, or x86. Next-gen x86 are due in early 2012, but would require massive amounts of work on iOS and would fly in the face of Apple's recently acquired fab shop. This leaves the option of a 40nm quad-core A9 processor and a small bump in GPU power.

The last thing to note is that the next Apple chip will have problems with 28nm in the form of AMD, Nvidia, and Qualcomm. All three of these companies have major 28nm launches in 2012 and more importantly, they have more influence than Apple because they have been around longer and are larger customers.
post #123 of 217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

Here's my two cents. Sorry if it's a bit disarrayed; I haven't slept in a long time.
My guess on a ultra-high resolution, not gonna happen.
Sure it is technically possible, but it would wreck Apple's platform.
Apple is trying to keep the mobile game market. This will not be possible with a screen packing so many pixels. Apple spent bucketloads more money on A5 silicon than any other tablet maker to date (the chip is 122.2 mm^2 vs 49 mm^2 for Tegra 2). These costs would go up again while providing little increase in performance.
A 4x increase in pixels will require many changes to the chip architecture resulting in huge power increases. The first obvious change is moving from 2x SGX543 to 8x just to keep the same user experience. To get a better user experience would require even more modules (limit is 16). A competitor could use a similar chip with a 720p resolution and stomp the ipad's gaming performance or provide an identical gaming experience and two or three times the battery life. It doesn't matter how efficient the OS is at powersaving in compute intensive tasks; when a huge chip goes all out, it uses more power than a smaller chip going all out.
The next problem is VRAM, Apple would have to increase video RAM by several times in order to compensate for the higher resolution. Once again, this comes with increased power due to more RAM, faster RAM, wider RAM bus, larger IMC, etc.
The next problem is moving to quad-core. I don't see this as too important in the near future, but it is VERY important when marketing. This increase will also add to die size and chip complexity (and increase maximum power consumption). The (very much overdue) addition of main memory will also affect battery life (note: I think that Apple will add 2GB instead of 1GB).
Bad battery life or game performance (compared to next-gen competitors) could deal an unrecoverable blow to Apple's still-emerging tablet market. Such risks are unnecessary when an ultra-high res tablet doesn't look too different from 18 inches. It is also worth noting that the only early 2012 next-gen architecture launching is Qualcomm's Krait. Then next one is OMAP's A15 in late 2012-early 2013.
If TI is the launch partner for ARM for the A15, I doubt that Apple would be able to launch earlier. An A15 would be necessary in order to push information to the graphics system quickly enough, resulting in an unacceptable early-mid 2013 launch of the ipad 3. This leaves two options: quad-core A9 ala Tegra 3, or x86. Next-gen x86 are due in early 2012, but would require massive amounts of work on iOS and would fly in the face of Apple's recently acquired fab shop. This leaves the option of a 40nm quad-core A9 processor and a small bump in GPU power.
The last thing to note is that the next Apple chip will have problems with 28nm in the form of AMD, Nvidia, and Qualcomm. All three of these companies have major 28nm launches in 2012 and more importantly, they have more influence than Apple because they have been around longer and are larger customers.
It wouldn't wreck Apple's platform. The only time the GPUs will be relevant will be for gaming and we don't know that an MP8 will be required to keep the same frame rate since the resolution and frame rate don't always scale like that. For all we know the MP2 could perform half as well, which would mean only an MP4 would be required.

Considering that the 4S isn't as powerful as the iPad 2 it may be likely that the performance of the iPad 2 in terms of graphics will become much closer to that of the 4S after the resolution increase and of course the necessary increase in graphics power. It's not like we have any games that are fully making use of the iPad 2's graphics yet.

This also, is assuming they don't use a newer graphics chip which offers more performance and lower power consumption. (I don't know whether or not such a chip is available yet.)

I was unaware the A15 wasn't available yet... in that case I'm not expecting a quad-core.
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post #124 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Huh? You find sitting less then a foot in front of your screen to be comfortable? Do you hold your iPad 2-3 inches from your face?

I thought you meant a foot further, not a foot total.
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post #125 of 217
Isn't that resolution way too high for such a small screen. And will the hardware be able to keep up, especially when it comes to gaming?
post #126 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

^It's not 4:3 it's 16:10 (I think). More vertical pixels is more useful for everything besides watching movies, I'm all for it. I wish they would have kept 16:10 for laptops too, I want my vertical pixels back!
1024x768 is reasonable, but 2048x1536 just sounds excessive and pointless to me. I mean, people debate whether 1080p really matters on a 15" laptop!

1024x768 is 4:3. 2048x1536 is also 4:3.

If you multiply 1024 by 2 and 768 by 2, you get 2048x1536. 2048x1536 has 4 times the pixels of 1024x768 if I am not mistaken.

The UI is likely going to be the same. Apple will just scale up the UI/icons by a factor of 4 so it won't look too small.
post #127 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbom View Post

It wouldn't wreck Apple's platform. The only time the GPUs will be relevant will be for gaming and we don't know that an MP8 will be required to keep the same frame rate since the resolution and frame rate don't always scale like that. For all we know the MP2 could perform half as well, which would mean only an MP4 would be required.
Considering that the 4S isn't as powerful as the iPad 2 it may be likely that the performance of the iPad 2 in terms of graphics will become much closer to that of the 4S after the resolution increase and of course the necessary increase in graphics power. It's not like we have any games that are fully making use of the iPad 2's graphics yet.
This also, is assuming they don't use a newer graphics chip which offers more performance and lower power consumption. (I don't know whether or not such a chip is available yet.)
I was unaware the A15 wasn't available yet... in that case I'm not expecting a quad-core.

SGX 543 is the only GPU currently available that scales to the necessary performance. All the next-gen GPU's go with the next-gen chips which don't come out until late 2012-early 2013 (the exception is Qualcomm, they are giving a speed bump to their 2xx platform making GPU performance a bit better than SGX543 MP2 and are launching the 3xx generation later).

As you know from the computer world, doubling GPU power on the same architecture and fab results in much higher power consumption.Even if current performance could be kept with 'just' a doubling of GPU power because of the afore mentioned fab and architecture problems, Apple would pay more for a bigger SOC, pay more for a bigger screen, and then still have a machine that performs the same with worse battery life.

Let's talk about 'not using all its power' claims. The A5 GPU runs at 200MHz, giving it 12.8 GFLOPS of power. At 240 GFLOPS, the Xbox is 20x faster, but games are still mostly made in 720p to keep graphics quality. This becomes even more urgent when viewing textures and models from 18 inches away. No amount of optimisation will be able to cover such huge deltas in performance especially if the problem is increased by making a 4x jump in pixels.

edit: remember that Krait products should arrive around the same time as ipad 3 (if it launches in february-march). Krait is 32% faster per clock (2.5 vs 3.3 DMIPS/MHz) and initial clocks will be set at 1.5 GHz scaling up to 2.5GHz (I want to try my hand at OCing one of these:D). The fastest A9 I know of is Tegra 3 @ 1.3 GHz. Apple won't be able to compete with Krait single-threaded performance, the only hope is to outdo the better architecture with more cores. If, like I believe, Apple get's stuck with 40nm until late 2012, then any changes to the chip would have to be minor else the chip would become too big to keep cool and too expensive to make.

Most of these problems can be negated by keeping the current resolution (which is fine for most people), so why would Apple bump the resolution?
Edited by hajile - 11/25/11 at 7:41am
post #128 of 217
I like to see how they can fit a resolution more than my 27" screen (2560x1440) into that iPad screen...
 
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post #129 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by djriful View Post

I like to see how they can fit a resolution more than my 27" screen (2560x1440) into that iPad screen...

They wouldn't, the article is about fitting a 2048x1536 resolution onto the screen, which has fewer pixels than 2560x1440. I don't see what is so hard to believe though, the iPhone 4 has a similar pixel density and came out over a year a half ago, and the iPad 3 is slated to still be about 3-4 months away.
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post #130 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

They wouldn't, the article is about fitting a 2048x1536 resolution onto the screen, which has fewer pixels than 2560x1440. I don't see what is so hard to believe though, the iPhone 4 has a similar pixel density and came out over a year a half ago, and the iPad 3 is slated to still be about 3-4 months away.

Perhaps it is possible, but this just shows how absurd it is...As long as they can advertise it I guess that's all that matters.
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