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The Noob's Guide To Nvidia GPUs - Page 4

post #31 of 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmonsada View Post

Amazing guide! I'm planning to buy a gtx 580 soon, how long do you think the price will be lowered? Do you think it will be lowered by the end of december?

Yea we should definetely start to see price drops by the end of december, i would think before then. i have heard rumors of 580s going for 350 after this price drop. dont quote me on that though as it is just a rumor biggrin.gif
glad u enjoyed the guide!
post #32 of 61
This is real good stuff, thanks for your contribution to OCN thumb.gif

A couple of minor points, though:

You should point out that what you refer to 'shaders' are formally known as 'Stream Processors' by AMD (you make a few references to ATi, who technically no longer exist and should be referred to as AMD), and CUDA Processors by nVidia. A consumer will never see either company refer to their 'shaders', so ... to avoid confusion, you might want to clarify.

Also it should be pointed out that SP's and CUDA cores are not entirely equivalent, and hence, the much higher SP counts seen on AMD cards doesn't mean they're necessarily more powerful. A pretty decent guideline to follow is that a single CUDA core is generally around 2.5 as powerful as a stream processor partly due to the fact that CUDA cores run at 1.5x the core clocks, whereas w/AMD cards the core and SP's run at equal clocks.

Which leads me to another point I would make: for an actual n00b ... they should be dissuaded from attempting to assess graphics cards using 'specs' in any way, shape or form unless just comparing the same model card with another, like an OC'd vs. a stock version. There is NO WAY that a noob will be able to effectively compare, say, an AMD card with an nV card, based on specs alone. They should be pointed towards looking up benchmarks in any case but the simplest comparison scenarios.

I would also point out that VRAM is the kind of thing where either you have 'enough' for the gaming scenario at hand, in which case any additional vram has NO EFFECT, or you do not have enough, in which case, your performance may tank horribly, rendering the game unplayable. Most of the time, a lack of sufficient vram can be mitigated by dropping AA level, texture quality, shadow quality, and/or resolution (typically only needed for the most extreme scenarios). The misunderstanding among noobs that moar VRAM = moar Performance is extremely wide-spread, and many people need to be firmly disabused of this notion thumb.gif

Lastly (for now wink.gif), I believe a distinction should be made between a non-reference 'PCB', and non-reference 'card'. You can call a card 'non-reference' just because the cooler is changed, but the distinction of a reference vs. non-reference PCB is a much more important one.
    
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post #33 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

This is real good stuff, thanks for your contribution to OCN thumb.gif
A couple of minor points, though:
You should point out that what you refer to 'shaders' are formally known as 'Stream Processors' by AMD (you make a few references to ATi, who technically no longer exist and should be referred to as AMD), and CUDA Processors by nVidia. A consumer will never see either company refer to their 'shaders', so ... to avoid confusion, you might want to clarify.
Also it should be pointed out that SP's and CUDA cores are not entirely equivalent, and hence, the much higher SP counts seen on AMD cards doesn't mean they're necessarily more powerful. A pretty decent guideline to follow is that a single CUDA core is generally around 2.5 as powerful as a stream processor partly due to the fact that CUDA cores run at 1.5x the core clocks, whereas w/AMD cards the core and SP's run at equal clocks.
Which leads me to another point I would make: for an actual n00b ... they should be dissuaded from attempting to assess graphics cards using 'specs' in any way, shape or form unless just comparing the same model card with another, like an OC'd vs. a stock version. There is NO WAY that a noob will be able to effectively compare, say, an AMD card with an nV card, based on specs alone. They should be pointed towards looking up benchmarks in any case but the simplest comparison scenarios.
I would also point out that VRAM is the kind of thing where either you have 'enough' for the gaming scenario at hand, in which case any additional vram has NO EFFECT, or you do not have enough, in which case, your performance may tank horribly, rendering the game unplayable. Most of the time, a lack of sufficient vram can be mitigated by dropping AA level, texture quality, shadow quality, and/or resolution (typically only needed for the most extreme scenarios). The misunderstanding among noobs that moar VRAM = moar Performance is extremely wide-spread, and many people need to be firmly disabused of this notion thumb.gif
Lastly (for now wink.gif), I believe a distinction should be made between a non-reference 'PCB', and non-reference 'card'. You can call a card 'non-reference' just because the cooler is changed, but the distinction of a reference vs. non-reference PCB is a much more important one.

Hey thanks for the feedback! i will update the guide as soon as finals are over and i get some time. thank you for pointing things out. and i will def cite you in the guide for ur awesome info i just wish i could +rep u hehe.thanks again for the feedback. u should sticky this imo wink.gif
post #34 of 61
Thread Starter 
Update 8: Updated VRAM section with some new info. Updated shader clock section with some new info, and added a few minor tweaks. Thanks again to brettjv for pointing things out to me. Without him this update would not have happened.
post #35 of 61
wow with the price drop i could get 2 570s and have sli right at the start with my new build and not get the second over the summer. or would it be smarter to go with a 560ti now and get a 670 later?
 
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omnius
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post #36 of 61
No problem, man.

Here's a quick suggestion for a substitution, though wink.gif

... the Stream Processors run at the same speed as the core clock. So what does that mean? Well, when you overclock your Nvidia GPU's core clock by 1 MHz, you also increasing speed of each CUDA Core (aka 'Shader' clocks) by 1.5MHz. However, when OC'ing the core of your AMD, the SP's ramp up at 1:1 with the core clock. This difference doesn't have any real practical importance, aside from accounting for some of why you can't compare SP and CUDA counts directly thumb.gif
    
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post #37 of 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brettjv View Post

No problem, man.
Here's a quick suggestion for a substitution, though wink.gif
... the Stream Processors run at the same speed as the core clock. So what does that mean? Well, when you overclock your Nvidia GPU's core clock by 1 MHz, you also increasing speed of each CUDA Core (aka 'Shader' clocks) by 1.5MHz. However, when OC'ing the core of your AMD, the SP's ramp up at 1:1 with the core clock. This difference doesn't have any real practical importance, aside from accounting for some of why you can't compare SP and CUDA counts directly thumb.gif

thanks again! will update now smile.gif
post #38 of 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swarm87 View Post

wow with the price drop i could get 2 570s and have sli right at the start with my new build and not get the second over the summer. or would it be smarter to go with a 560ti now and get a 670 later?

no way to tell honestly. we dont know how powerful the new keplers will be. and we dont know how they will be priced. However, sli 570s should be more than enough to last you for at least 2-3 years with no problems
post #39 of 61
Nice guide. thumb.gif
    
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post #40 of 61
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Update 9: Minor tweak to the Shader Clock section. Thanks again brettjv
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