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[TCS] Gabe Newell: "Piracy is basically a non-issue for our company. " - Page 7

post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

You seem to be forgetting that what you typed out is an opinion.
Steam being "Not intrusive" is your opinion, not hard fact.
Some old fashioned people see simply having to log in to a third service to play their game as intrusive.
Some people don't like the idea of buying a license to play a game through a third party service as opposed to buying their actual game.
You dont see why some people would see having to use Steam as a bad thing because you obviously hold Steam in high opinion.
Why WOULD you see it from another persons angle when you're looking from your angle the whole time?
Just something to think about.
On topic:
I agree with Gabe in terms of companies making it a nuisance to simply purchase their software.
You're in a Valve/Steam thread.
Seemingly mindless hypocritical fudge eating is pretty much a given at some point.


I used to hate steam. Literally HATE it... I resisted it as long as I could and then finally I bought a game.. Empire Total War.. now the game was bug ridden and never was patched fully by creative assembly. However my main problem with it was that I had to install steam to use it.


Then something stupid happened. I started liking steam.. Started buying games for 3 dollars when they should have been 25 or 30 dollars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Steam is DRM. Sometimes you require to be connected to steam in order to game in offline mode. Always makes me lol at that.



Yes about once every 15 days you do need to connect to steam to start in offline mode... If you can't get internet access once every 15 days youve got bigger problems than video games.



Ladies and Gentlemen it is 2011 not 1995. Games are not sold on disk anymore and the ones that are disk only are fewer and fewer by the day. IF we must use DRM and Im pretty sure we will be forced to at some point or another at least let it be like steam. Ive found the program to be mostly unintrusive.. Ive had a few issues with it but not many and none major. Their customer service has been super. I once ACCIDENTALLY bought the wrong game.. You know they went against their own policy refunded my money took the game off my account and let me buy the correct game. They said they'd only do it once and its never happened again.


Gabe had a great idea. Its really sad that someone that is an old phogey like me who loves to resist change is embracing it more than many of you.

But keep being set in your ways.. I think that this was less about preventing piracy and more about being a game manager where all of your games were in one easy place instead of a million different folders. A place where you could see any friend you had playing online and see what game they were playing and click join game at any time as long as you both owned the same game. A place where patching and updating your game isnt a 5 hour search over the internet.


So sad that people think its evil DRM... ubisoft makes DRM... Steam just makes playing games easier.
Edited by Darkpriest667 - 11/25/11 at 2:34pm
 
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post #62 of 82
Valve.....last saving grace of the pc market IMO.



Also....new site design is CRAZY
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post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

You seem to be forgetting that what you typed out is an opinion.
Steam being "Not intrusive" is your opinion, not hard fact.
Some old fashioned people see simply having to log in to a third service to play their game as intrusive.
Some people don't like the idea of buying a license to play a game through a third party service as opposed to buying their actual game.
You dont see why some people would see having to use Steam as a bad thing because you obviously hold Steam in high opinion.
Why WOULD you see it from another persons angle when you're looking from your angle the whole time?
Just something to think about.

Here's another perspective:

I feel like playing Halo on my xbox. In order to do this, I must turn on the console and load the disc.

Now, I feel like playing Team Fortress 2. In order to do this, I must log into my steam account, and run Team Fortress 2.



What's the difference here?

Hardware DRM vs. Software DRM



Steam, in a way, is just another platform on which I can play my games. When you shed the notion that Steam is holding your games captive, it makes a lot more sense. Here's another way to look at it too; You must have an Xbox360 to play Xbox360 games, while you must have Steam to play games tied to your Steam account. Now, if your Xbox360 goes out, you're screwed until you get another one. If your computer goes out, just log into steam on another computer. Take your pick, but as far as a platform goes, Steam is the better system compared to consoles. At least I don't have to pay for access to the internet on my Steam account. wink.gif
Edited by Mad Pistol - 11/25/11 at 3:24pm
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post #64 of 82
PC developers, take notes.
post #65 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

I used to hate steam. Literally HATE it... I resisted it as long as I could and then finally I bought a game.. Empire Total War.. now the game was bug ridden and never was patched fully by creative assembly. However my main problem with it was that I had to install steam to use it.
Then something stupid happened. I started liking steam.. Started buying games for 3 dollars when they should have been 25 or 30 dollars.
Yes about once every 15 days you do need to connect to steam to start in offline mode... If you can't get internet access once every 15 days youve got bigger problems than video games.
Ladies and Gentlemen it is 2011 not 1995. Games are not sold on disk anymore and the ones that are disk only are fewer and fewer by the day. IF we must use DRM and Im pretty sure we will be forced to at some point or another at least let it be like steam. Ive found the program to be mostly unintrusive.. Ive had a few issues with it but not many and none major. Their customer service has been super. I once ACCIDENTALLY bought the wrong game.. You know they went against their own policy refunded my money took the game off my account and let me buy the correct game. They said they'd only do it once and its never happened again.
Gabe had a great idea. Its really sad that someone that is an old phogey like me who loves to resist change is embracing it more than many of you.
But keep being set in your ways.. I think that this was less about preventing piracy and more about being a game manager where all of your games were in one easy place instead of a million different folders. A place where you could see any friend you had playing online and see what game they were playing and click join game at any time as long as you both owned the same game. A place where patching and updating your game isnt a 5 hour search over the internet.
So sad that people think its evil DRM... ubisoft makes DRM... Steam just makes playing games easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Here's another perspective:
I feel like playing Halo on my xbox. In order to do this, I must turn on the console and load the disc.
Now, I feel like playing Team Fortress 2. In order to do this, I must log into my steam account, and run Team Fortress 2.
What's the difference here?
Hardware DRM vs. Software DRM
Steam, in a way, is just another platform on which I can play my games. When you shed the notion that Steam is holding your games captive, it makes a lot more sense. Here's another way to look at it too; You must have an Xbox360 to play Xbox360 games, while you must have Steam to play games tied to your Steam account. Now, if your Xbox360 goes out, you're screwed until you get another one. If your computer goes out, just log into steam on another computer. Take your pick, but as far as a platform goes, Steam is the better system compared to consoles. At least I don't have to pay for access to the internet on my Steam account. wink.gif

Again, all you're doing is giving an opinion on why you personally tolerate Steam.

When you consider the fact that my reply was to a person who couldn't understand why someone may not like Steam because he thinks X part and Y part of Steam is awesome, it makes your posts hardly any different to the person I quoted.

Giving replies about how Steam is X, Y and Z does not detract from the fact that some people just do not want Steam or any of its kind. You might like it, but that doesn't make their opinion invalid. @ Darkpriest. Saying you don't like something doesn't mean you think it's evil, it means you dont like it. That's okay. It's allowed.

Also, the console analogy is terribly fubar'd in many ways.

You buy a console almost specifically for gaming. Noone whines about having to buy a console to play console games, because noone is silly enough to whine about having to buy a console to buy console games. Console > Games.

You dont buy a gaming PC to install Steam so you can play games, you buy gaming PC to play games. The PC is the platform for gaming, not Steam.

Steam is an intermediary between you and playing games on your PC. Some people dont want/like that, just as some dont want/like always on DRM for their own reasons. PC > Steam > Games.

If you bought a games console and had to install third party game managers to play games on it, then you'd have an analogy to make.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 11/25/11 at 3:54pm
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post #66 of 82
Well don't stroke out over it grizzleboy its not changing and it wont ever change.


The future is cloud and if you can't accept that I suggest you sell your pc and get out of the tech world (which may mean moving to somewhere technology is very limited) Its the future. Its progress and its not going to stop. The more we become reliant on technology the more intrusive it will become in our lives. It is the way things are. You can accept it or you can stress out over it and have a heart attack at 35. Personally my give a crap got lost somewhere in my house and I haven't bothered looking for it.


What I see is whining about steam which is a game manager and not a DRM. If you are so concerned about it there is a patch for almost every game from 3rd parties that allow you to play steam only games without opening steam. I'd look there first.


Frankly the reason I got away from consoles was they just dont do enough for my multitasking personality. Sure I can focus on a game but sometimes I like to alt tab out and do 5 or 6 other things. Consoles never gave me that choice. I can tell you consoles are moving more towards pc than pc is moving towards consoles.. Now people watch netflix on them browse on them etc etc.. Consoles are becoming more like a budget pc than high end gaming systems are becoming more like consoles. Expect to see a Windows 8 like OS on the new XBOX (or windows 9 if it takes that long)
 
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post #67 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Again, all you're doing is giving an opinion on why you personally tolerate Steam.

An opinion that is widely shared, an opinion agreed upon by the majority of PC gamers. Somehow, I think that gives it some weight, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Also, the console analogy is terribly fubar'd in many ways.
You buy a console almost specifically for gaming. Noone whines about having to buy a console to play console games, because noone is silly enough to whine about having to buy a console to buy console games. Console > Games.

This is where you're wrong. A traditional console was solely designed for games. The modern console, such as a PS3, is more of a media hub than just a gaming console. Take into perspective what these consoles can do:

Play games
Browse the Internet
Download content
Watch movies (DVD/Blu-ray)
Steam movies and TV shows via 3rd party services
Communicate with friends

In this regard, a modern console is sort of like a purpose-built PC; it's mainly built for one task (games, in this case), but you can do many other things with the system as well. I'd still say that Steam is the modern version of the "games" part of a console. Steam does not play games itself, but I want to bet that consoles in the future will adopt a Steam-like system of downloading/owning games via an online account. Considering that Xbox360, PS3, and Wii all have their own versions of online markets, I'd say that vision is already being realized in a very small way. Steam is just the culmination of a school of thought that believes that games should no longer be dictated by what media you have, but rather what content you buy/tie to your account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

You dont buy a gaming PC to install Steam so you can play games, you buy gaming PC to play games. The PC is the platform for gaming, not Steam.
Steam is an intermediary between you and playing games on your PC. Some people dont want/like that, just as some dont want/like always on DRM for their own reasons. PC > Steam > Games.
If you bought a games console and had to install third party game managers to play games on it, then you'd have an analogy to make.

Interesting opinion, although I do somewhat agree, I don't agree fully with this statement. Again, the model for consoles is migrating to more of a Steam-like system where all games are tied to an account that can be accessed via the internet. I've listed my reasons for this above already, so I won't bother with writing it again... and whether you want to believe it or not, consoles are beginning to use third-party software in conjunction with the games themselves. An excellent example of this is Valve's implementation of Steam on the PS3... sort of a look at the future again.

2 sides to every story. You (and everyone) would be wise to consider both of those perspectives. You've got the old model (consoles/PCs and games based on physical media) and you've got the new model (account-based gaming and an entertainment industry based on services). Whether people like it or not, the new model is very quickly becoming the defacto standard, as EA has proven with their competitor for Steam: Origin. I have a feeling that more and more publishers are going to attempt similar endeavors.
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post #68 of 82
I understand why some people have an issue with Steam but really as far as online game services go it is about as good as you could hope for a platform that uses DRM. Steamwoks is just about the least aggressive form of DRM on the market.

Another point that is important to make is that you can start in offline mode for 90 days (3 months) before having to connect to the Internet again. Also you can put Steam into Offline Mode permanently if you wish, although you will have to back online if you want to download updates or more games.

I really like Steam. They offer so many features and great pricing that the only places I even buy games anymore are Steam, Good Old Games (please check it out!), and Child's Play/Directly from indie developers, i.e. Minecraft.
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post #69 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

Well don't stroke out over it grizzleboy its not changing and it wont ever change.
The future is cloud and if you can't accept that I suggest you sell your pc and get out of the tech world (which may mean moving to somewhere technology is very limited) Its the future. Its progress and its not going to stop. The more we become reliant on technology the more intrusive it will become in our lives. It is the way things are. You can accept it or you can stress out over it and have a heart attack at 35. Personally my give a crap got lost somewhere in my house and I haven't bothered looking for it.
What I see is whining about steam which is a game manager and not a DRM. If you are so concerned about it there is a patch for almost every game from 3rd parties that allow you to play steam only games without opening steam. I'd look there first.
Frankly the reason I got away from consoles was they just dont do enough for my multitasking personality. Sure I can focus on a game but sometimes I like to alt tab out and do 5 or 6 other things. Consoles never gave me that choice. I can tell you consoles are moving more towards pc than pc is moving towards consoles.. Now people watch netflix on them browse on them etc etc.. Consoles are becoming more like a budget pc than high end gaming systems are becoming more like consoles. Expect to see a Windows 8 like OS on the new XBOX (or windows 9 if it takes that long)

You once again miss the point.

Just to make it clear, I have logged 100+ hours in steam based gaming just this month alone from playing F1 2011/Skyrim/Saints Row/Anno 2070, all purchased on Steam.

You can keep preaching to me as if I even gave you my opinion on Steam for you to try and tell me about it, but the fact remains that all I ever did was tell you why some people might not like Steam.

You are behaving like the common fanboy who takes any sort of criticism towards their "favourite" like a personal attack without taking the time to actually asses the situation or context.
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It's-a tu maaach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

I used to hate steam. Literally HATE it... I resisted it as long as I could and then finally I bought a game.. Empire Total War.. now the game was bug ridden and never was patched fully by creative assembly. However my main problem with it was that I had to install steam to use it.
Then something stupid happened. I started liking steam.. Started buying games for 3 dollars when they should have been 25 or 30 dollars.
Yes about once every 15 days you do need to connect to steam to start in offline mode... If you can't get internet access once every 15 days youve got bigger problems than video games.
Ladies and Gentlemen it is 2011 not 1995. Games are not sold on disk anymore and the ones that are disk only are fewer and fewer by the day. IF we must use DRM and Im pretty sure we will be forced to at some point or another at least let it be like steam. Ive found the program to be mostly unintrusive.. Ive had a few issues with it but not many and none major. Their customer service has been super. I once ACCIDENTALLY bought the wrong game.. You know they went against their own policy refunded my money took the game off my account and let me buy the correct game. They said they'd only do it once and its never happened again.
Gabe had a great idea. Its really sad that someone that is an old phogey like me who loves to resist change is embracing it more than many of you.
But keep being set in your ways.. I think that this was less about preventing piracy and more about being a game manager where all of your games were in one easy place instead of a million different folders. A place where you could see any friend you had playing online and see what game they were playing and click join game at any time as long as you both owned the same game. A place where patching and updating your game isnt a 5 hour search over the internet.
So sad that people think its evil DRM... ubisoft makes DRM... Steam just makes playing games easier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Here's another perspective:
I feel like playing Halo on my xbox. In order to do this, I must turn on the console and load the disc.
Now, I feel like playing Team Fortress 2. In order to do this, I must log into my steam account, and run Team Fortress 2.
What's the difference here?
Hardware DRM vs. Software DRM
Steam, in a way, is just another platform on which I can play my games. When you shed the notion that Steam is holding your games captive, it makes a lot more sense. Here's another way to look at it too; You must have an Xbox360 to play Xbox360 games, while you must have Steam to play games tied to your Steam account. Now, if your Xbox360 goes out, you're screwed until you get another one. If your computer goes out, just log into steam on another computer. Take your pick, but as far as a platform goes, Steam is the better system compared to consoles. At least I don't have to pay for access to the internet on my Steam account. wink.gif

Again, all you're doing is giving an opinion on why you personally tolerate Steam.

You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

"I feel like playing Halo on my xbox. In order to do this, I must turn on the consoles and load the disc" is a factual statement. It is by no means opinion. This incorpates restrictions that are have very similar conditions as Steam. Both can be considered DRM. It is by no means an opinion. Or are you able to play Halo on your xbox without having to insert a CD first? Because if that is possible, then it is not true and can be considered an opinion.
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