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post #331 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

Intel can raise prices to whatever they like, since you would have no competition to compare it to, you couldn't call it expensive even if they charged $500 for the next Pentium dual core.

That scenario makes no sense, and yeah you would call that expensive. We would be able to compare it to the historical pricing of every previous dual-core CPU ever, and it would take all of 10 seconds for anyone who isn't a moron to figure out that $500 for a dual-core CPU is blatant gouging. Think about all those budget prebuilt systems you see in Walmart for $299, with a dual core Pentium/Celeron and 2GB of RAM. Do you honestly believe that Intel would start charging $500 for a Pentium/Celeron and thus hike the price of those budget systems to $800? The budget and mid-range prebuilt computing sector is where both AMD and Intel make a good deal of their money, why on earth would they then kill it off completely by gouging like that? People who go for $299 systems can't afford anything else...if the cheapest new desktop/laptop was $800, they'd just buy a used one from a garage sale or go without.

For the 10,000th time, there will not be any insane price hikes like $500 for a dual core or $1000 for a quad. Am I trying to defend an Intel monopoly? Hell no. I'm simply taken aback at how many people really don't seem to understand how economics work.

That aside, if anyone actually read the article in the OP, AMD is still in business and they're still making CPUs and GPUs. They're not going anywhere.
Edited by Malcolm - 11/30/11 at 6:18am
post #332 of 349
I dont know what some of you are talking about. First of all, AMD is not going anywhere. There has been no proof or even hints that they are going under. This whole thing has started because people think that Bulldozer was a failure. If you want to know what you are talking about do the work. Bulldozer was not a failure. It is just like any other processor with a new architecture that has just come out. New architectures always take a little time to be optimized into the processor they were meant to be. This new architecture problem happens most all the time. Ex. Phenom, Pentium. Does everyone forget what happens or do they choose not to know it.

If you look at current reviews of the Bulldozer, it is not nearly as bad as everyone thought it was. There have been a lot of problems that have been worked out with bios updates and there are still many corrections that need to be made. The Phenom was in an even worse position than the BD when it first came out. People think that new cpu's should come out already optimized cause they've been working on it for a long time right? No, the processors are optimized for the manufacturers equipment not third party equipemnt like ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, ASROck etc. AMD does their own testing on processors with their own equipment not with third party products. Yes, new architectures are always going to need to be optimized. And they will be with new revisions. BD is not a disaster. Given a few more months and the BD will be the processor it was meant to be. Once AMD optimizes the BD architecture to run more smoothly it will be an even greater processor. If you go to BD forums you will see that BD owners are enjoying their chip more and more by the day with every new bios update. Also, once windows 8 is released the scheduler will take better advantage of its 8 cores to. AMD will make optimizations like larger cache or wider pipeline or whatever they do to make the chip even better.

Dont be too quick to assume that BD was a failure and that it caused AMD to go under or away from desktops. They have said that they will be focusing more on mobile and thats IMO is a good move. It does not mean that they are done making desktop cpus at all. They have already showed their plans for their desktop chips for the next 4-5yrs. Why would you think that they are not going to do that any more? AMD's fusion is thriving along with their gpu's. The BD, I admit, was bad at first. But then again most new architectures are when they first come out. Once the BD and all its outside components (hardware, software) are optimized, the 8 core desktop chip will be better than the chip everyone was hoping for.

This is not the end of AMD or anywhere close to it. AMD has plenty of options as far as making money goes. They are definitely making changes to their priorities but this is only to benefit their company. This does not mean that they are done with anything. Just wait and see. All this talk about AMD going under and its because of BD or they're not making enough profit or intel has beaten them or whatever you think is going on means nothing when there is no proof of any of this.

You will see that AMD's Bulldozer architecture will flourish 6-12 months from now just like any other new architecture. You can see for yourself that the performance of the current BD has increased exponentially since the release of the chip. Take a look at current threads and posts on BD.
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post #333 of 349
um, AMD couldn't really pay any less attention to its mobile offerings due to the past. It needs to get competitive. This is a good thing.

Do you really think intel pays the most attention to its desktop offerings anymore? or even the same attention that it used to give it's desktop offerings 10/5/3 years ago or even 1 year ago? That's because intel diversified into mobile and ultra-mobile segments. Something that AMD must do to as well to remain cometitive. Of course, it still will be viable in the desktop segement, and still will allocate the bulk of it spending on desktop and server processors.
    
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post #334 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezachlowe2004 View Post

I dont know what some of you are talking about. First of all, AMD is not going anywhere. There has been no proof or even hints that they are going under. This whole thing has started because people think that Bulldozer was a failure. If you want to know what you are talking about do the work. Bulldozer was not a failure. It is just like any other processor with a new architecture that has just come out. New architectures always take a little time to be optimized into the processor they were meant to be. This new architecture problem happens most all the time. Ex. Phenom, Pentium. Does everyone forget what happens or do they choose not to know it.
If you look at current reviews of the Bulldozer, it is not nearly as bad as everyone thought it was. There have been a lot of problems that have been worked out with bios updates and there are still many corrections that need to be made. The Phenom was in an even worse position than the BD when it first came out. People think that new cpu's should come out already optimized cause they've been working on it for a long time right? No, the processors are optimized for the manufacturers equipment not third party equipemnt like ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, ASROck etc. AMD does their own testing on processors with their own equipment not with third party products. Yes, new architectures are always going to need to be optimized. And they will be with new revisions. BD is not a disaster. Given a few more months and the BD will be the processor it was meant to be. Once AMD optimizes the BD architecture to run more smoothly it will be an even greater processor. If you go to BD forums you will see that BD owners are enjoying their chip more and more by the day with every new bios update. Also, once windows 8 is released the scheduler will take better advantage of its 8 cores to. AMD will make optimizations like larger cache or wider pipeline or whatever they do to make the chip even better.
Dont be too quick to assume that BD was a failure and that it caused AMD to go under or away from desktops. They have said that they will be focusing more on mobile and thats IMO is a good move. It does not mean that they are done making desktop cpus at all. They have already showed their plans for their desktop chips for the next 4-5yrs. Why would you think that they are not going to do that any more? AMD's fusion is thriving along with their gpu's. The BD, I admit, was bad at first. But then again most new architectures are when they first come out. Once the BD and all its outside components (hardware, software) are optimized, the 8 core desktop chip will be better than the chip everyone was hoping for.
This is not the end of AMD or anywhere close to it. AMD has plenty of options as far as making money goes. They are definitely making changes to their priorities but this is only to benefit their company. This does not mean that they are done with anything. Just wait and see. All this talk about AMD going under and its because of BD or they're not making enough profit or intel has beaten them or whatever you think is going on means nothing when there is no proof of any of this.
You will see that AMD's Bulldozer architecture will flourish 6-12 months from now just like any other new architecture. You can see for yourself that the performance of the current BD has increased exponentially since the release of the chip. Take a look at current threads and posts on BD.

Don't try to make a sensible post on OCN, it will only be ignored. frown.gif
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post #335 of 349
You need an enemy. Intel needs AMD.
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post #336 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezachlowe2004 View Post

I dont know what some of you are talking about. First of all, AMD is not going anywhere. There has been no proof or even hints that they are going under. This whole thing has started because people think that Bulldozer was a failure. If you want to know what you are talking about do the work. Bulldozer was not a failure. It is just like any other processor with a new architecture that has just come out. New architectures always take a little time to be optimized into the processor they were meant to be. This new architecture problem happens most all the time. Ex. Phenom, Pentium. Does everyone forget what happens or do they choose not to know it.

If you look at current reviews of the Bulldozer, it is not nearly as bad as everyone thought it was. There have been a lot of problems that have been worked out with bios updates and there are still many corrections that need to be made. The Phenom was in an even worse position than the BD when it first came out. People think that new cpu's should come out already optimized cause they've been working on it for a long time right? No, the processors are optimized for the manufacturers equipment not third party equipemnt like ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, ASROck etc. AMD does their own testing on processors with their own equipment not with third party products. Yes, new architectures are always going to need to be optimized. And they will be with new revisions. BD is not a disaster. Given a few more months and the BD will be the processor it was meant to be. Once AMD optimizes the BD architecture to run more smoothly it will be an even greater processor. If you go to BD forums you will see that BD owners are enjoying their chip more and more by the day with every new bios update. Also, once windows 8 is released the scheduler will take better advantage of its 8 cores to. AMD will make optimizations like larger cache or wider pipeline or whatever they do to make the chip even better.

Dont be too quick to assume that BD was a failure and that it caused AMD to go under or away from desktops. They have said that they will be focusing more on mobile and thats IMO is a good move. It does not mean that they are done making desktop cpus at all. They have already showed their plans for their desktop chips for the next 4-5yrs. Why would you think that they are not going to do that any more? AMD's fusion is thriving along with their gpu's. The BD, I admit, was bad at first. But then again most new architectures are when they first come out. Once the BD and all its outside components (hardware, software) are optimized, the 8 core desktop chip will be better than the chip everyone was hoping for.

This is not the end of AMD or anywhere close to it. AMD has plenty of options as far as making money goes. They are definitely making changes to their priorities but this is only to benefit their company. This does not mean that they are done with anything. Just wait and see. All this talk about AMD going under and its because of BD or they're not making enough profit or intel has beaten them or whatever you think is going on means nothing when there is no proof of any of this.

You will see that AMD's Bulldozer architecture will flourish 6-12 months from now just like any other new architecture. You can see for yourself that the performance of the current BD has increased exponentially since the release of the chip. Take a look at current threads and posts on BD.

Sandy Bridge didn't need 6-12 months to fluorish.

Neither did Nehalem

Neither did Conroe.

Stop giving excuses for Bulldozer's poor performance. Bulldozer is simply not competitive with Intel's Sandy Bridge CPUs and will be even less competitive once Ivy Bridge comes out next April. Why buy a $280 FX-8150 when a 2600K kills it in every performance benchmark for about the same price, while using less power? Plus, with the current 1155 platform there is a definite upgrade path to Ivy Bridge.
Edited by 996gt2 - 11/30/11 at 8:30am
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post #337 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post

There will come a time in your academic life where you will realise that the theory does not always link with the real world. I am aware of what those products are and if you remember retailers also raise prices even if INTEL does not. Have a look at the supply and demand aspect of this picture and you will see that there is more to it than meets the eye.
Now if you go back to your Econ 101 book, you will see that by definition a MONOPOLY is not good. Trying to justify it by saying '...will not charge exorbitant prices' requires a bit of more reading on the price concept, marginal cost, average cost, deadweight loss, market failures, consumer surplus, producer surplus, consumer welfare, etc.
P.S: I studied a bit of economics ... and I am doing a PhD in Eco after two Masters in Eco / International Eco. thumb.gif

Well of course, its a model. But (if you read my second post) my point is that having a monopoly does not necessarily mean mean that prices skyrocket. A lot of people here seem to think that. Also, as others have pointed out, Intel's pricing layout hasn't changed in a very long time, despite the gap between AMD and Intel growing larger and larger over time in the high end.
    
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post #338 of 349
Remember econ kids, everything is speculation. There's no way to prove it unless it's been done. The study of economics was supposed to help us, guide us in "economizing" the limited resources of the world, since none of us and see into the future, we have made up certain rules that basically chase the end game, money.
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post #339 of 349
I think we're overreacting here.
Quote:
All AMD has said so far about its new strategy -- which it has promised to detail in February -- is that it intends to pursue "growth opportunities" in low-powered devices, emerging markets and Internet-based businesses.

Let's not jump the gun and wait until February
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezachlowe2004 View Post

I dont know what some of you are talking about. First of all, AMD is not going anywhere. There has been no proof or even hints that they are going under. This whole thing has started because people think that Bulldozer was a failure. If you want to know what you are talking about do the work. Bulldozer was not a failure. It is just like any other processor with a new architecture that has just come out. New architectures always take a little time to be optimized into the processor they were meant to be. This new architecture problem happens most all the time. Ex. Phenom, Pentium. Does everyone forget what happens or do they choose not to know it.
If you look at current reviews of the Bulldozer, it is not nearly as bad as everyone thought it was. There have been a lot of problems that have been worked out with bios updates and there are still many corrections that need to be made. The Phenom was in an even worse position than the BD when it first came out. People think that new cpu's should come out already optimized cause they've been working on it for a long time right? No, the processors are optimized for the manufacturers equipment not third party equipemnt like ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, ASROck etc. AMD does their own testing on processors with their own equipment not with third party products. Yes, new architectures are always going to need to be optimized. And they will be with new revisions. BD is not a disaster. Given a few more months and the BD will be the processor it was meant to be. Once AMD optimizes the BD architecture to run more smoothly it will be an even greater processor. If you go to BD forums you will see that BD owners are enjoying their chip more and more by the day with every new bios update. Also, once windows 8 is released the scheduler will take better advantage of its 8 cores to. AMD will make optimizations like larger cache or wider pipeline or whatever they do to make the chip even better.
Dont be too quick to assume that BD was a failure and that it caused AMD to go under or away from desktops. They have said that they will be focusing more on mobile and thats IMO is a good move. It does not mean that they are done making desktop cpus at all. They have already showed their plans for their desktop chips for the next 4-5yrs. Why would you think that they are not going to do that any more? AMD's fusion is thriving along with their gpu's. The BD, I admit, was bad at first. But then again most new architectures are when they first come out. Once the BD and all its outside components (hardware, software) are optimized, the 8 core desktop chip will be better than the chip everyone was hoping for.
This is not the end of AMD or anywhere close to it. AMD has plenty of options as far as making money goes. They are definitely making changes to their priorities but this is only to benefit their company. This does not mean that they are done with anything. Just wait and see. All this talk about AMD going under and its because of BD or they're not making enough profit or intel has beaten them or whatever you think is going on means nothing when there is no proof of any of this.
You will see that AMD's Bulldozer architecture will flourish 6-12 months from now just like any other new architecture. You can see for yourself that the performance of the current BD has increased exponentially since the release of the chip. Take a look at current threads and posts on BD.

I still have hope based on what I read that if Piledriver can improve the cache performance and the 32nm process is ironed out allowing for good power consumptions, this can be a succesful architecture. Can you please post link to those BZ threads Mike? I've been searching here in oc.net but couldn't find any updated benchmarks with APM disabled
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post #340 of 349
Source Article proved False...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1176662/extremetech-amd-to-attempt-self-resurrection-but-not-with-arm#

AMD Exec quoted in Article claims he was quoted "out of context" and that AMD is still a major contender in the PC Processor Market.
     
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