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MSI Twin Frozr III Power Edition/OC - hd6950 or gtx 560 ti 448 cores? - Page 3

post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

That may be your experience, but when looking at the performance numbers, a GTX 570 is not crippled by having 1.25GB of RAM in BF3. Even at Ultra settings, it performs very similarly to a 6970 with MSAA off and better than a 6970 when MSAA is enabled.

Back when I had an Asus GTX 580 DCII, I was getting an average of 70-80 FPS with the card overclocked to 930 core. This was on Ultra settings with 4x MSAA/16X AF enabled, along with all of the eye candy options. My 580 was a 1.5GB version, and obviously it was not hindered by having 1.5GB of VRAM at 1920x1080/Ultra if I managed to consistently get 70-80 FPS.
A GTX 560 Ti-448 overclocked to 850-900 core should easily be able to get 50-60 FPS with those same settings, so enabling MSAA on BF3 shouldn't be any issue with the NVidia card.

GTX580 is getting AVG or 53 so even with a 20% OC it will not got 70fps+, That said it get 41fps in min. MAX OC for GTX560 448 got same performance as GTX580. I would not want 41 min in a fps game. Why sacrifice 20% for AA when its not needed. If you are going to disable it either way then AMD would be faster. The fps might not get a hit from 1.28GB but you will feel stuttering and since you dont have a GTX570 have have no idea what ur are taking about because GTX580 has plenty for 1080p. My friend has GTX570 and after he played it in my PC with 0AA he could not tell the difference and he said it feels much smother. He took AA down and now he is a happy gamer.
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post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

That may be your experience, but when looking at the performance numbers, a GTX 570 is not crippled by having 1.25GB of RAM in BF3. Even at Ultra settings, it performs very similarly to a 6970 with MSAA off and better than a 6970 when MSAA is enabled.

Back when I had an Asus GTX 580 DCII, I was getting an average of 70-80 FPS with the card overclocked to 930 core. This was on Ultra settings with 4x MSAA/16X AF enabled, along with all of the eye candy options. My 580 was a 1.5GB version, and obviously it was not hindered by having 1.5GB of VRAM at 1920x1080/Ultra if I managed to consistently get 70-80 FPS.
A GTX 560 Ti-448 overclocked to 850-900 core should easily be able to get 50-60 FPS with those same settings, so enabling MSAA on BF3 shouldn't be any issue with the NVidia card.

GTX580 is getting AVG or 53 so even with a 20% OC it will not got 70fps+

Keep in mind that Techspot was testing with 1920x1200 an I'm using 1920x1080, which is about 11% fewer pixels to drive. Also, the average fps can vary depending on which level you are playing.

You're right, I've never owned a 570, but I did used to have a 470..which is basically identical to the GTX 560Ti-448. Unfortunately, I sold it before BF3 came out, but I never noticed any stuttering in Crysis 2 DX11 on high settings. So, again, I don't think the 1.25GB of VRAM is that much of an issue.

At the end of the day, both the 560Ti-448 and 6950 are great cards. The Nvidia card has its limitations (such as only 2 monitors max per card), and the AMD card has its limitations to (such as worse tessellation performance and no PhysX support). But I don't really think you can go wrong with either one. Both will be fine at 1200p resolution.
Edited by 996gt2 - 12/2/11 at 9:01pm
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post #23 of 35

Sure thing CWell1337 ... I posted it days ago in the AMD forums ... http://www.overclock.net/t/1177489/which-6970-o-o#post_15830445


@ NEWEGG - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102957&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=4003003&SID=10x5d1045hhhw

Normally $349 ... - $30 MIR (expires 12/15/2011) plus additional - $20 off with promo code HARDOCP1130D, ends 12/6 = for a final Price of = $299 !

11187-03_HD6970_2GBGDDR5_2miniDP_HDMI_2DVI_PCIE_FBC_634548147782805585_600_600.jpg

SAPPhIRE Product Page Link = http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1041&pid=1353&psn=&lid=1&leg=0

 

SAPPHIRE INFO Quote:

The new SAPPHIRE HD 6970 has the same internal architecture as the standard model, with 1536 stream processors and 96 texture processing units, and clock speeds are 880MHz for the core and 1375Mhz (5.5Gb/sec effective) for the 2GB of GDDR5 memory. This new design has two 90mm fans with thin impellers that can move the same amount of air at 10% lower rotation speeds than conventional fans, keeping noise low, and their special dust repelling bearings contribute to high reliability.

 

With the Dual BIOs set to the standard position, the Dual fans keep this model quiet and up to 25% cooler than the standard model even under load conditions.

 

With the BIOS switched to the performance setting, the core voltage of the GPU is raised to 1.2V, the fan speed is set to a high performance profile and the powertune adjustment for overclocking is raised to 50% allowing the user to maximise performance of the card by increasing clock speeds either with AMD Overdrive or with SAPPHIRE TriXX

up to a ceiling of 1500 MHz core, 2000 MHz memory. drool.gif

 

TweakTown Review = http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4449/sapphire_hd_6970_2gb_dual_fan_video_card_overclocked_review/index1.html

Pro-Clockers.com Review = http://pro-clockers.com/videocards/2108-sapphire-hd-6970-2gb-dual-fan-graphic-card.html

techwarelabs.com Review = http://www.techwarelabs.com/sapphire-radeon-hd-6970-2gb-gddr5-dual-fan/all/1

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWell1337 View Post
Could you please link that card at that price? I will buy it right this second.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWell1337 View Post
I want performance now and that new Sapphire 6970 that LA King is talking about is a steal at $300. I just can't see where he found that price.


 

   
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post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA_Kings_Fan View Post

Sure thing CWell1337 ... I posted it days ago in the AMD forums ... http://www.overclock.net/t/1177489/which-6970-o-o#post_15830445

@ NEWEGG - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102957&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=4003003&SID=10x5d1045hhhw
Normally $349 ... - $30 MIR (expires 12/15/2011) plus additional - $20 off with promo code HARDOCP1130D, ends 12/6 = for a final Price of = $299 !
11187-03_HD6970_2GBGDDR5_2miniDP_HDMI_2DVI_PCIE_FBC_634548147782805585_600_600.jpg

SAPPhIRE Product Page Link = http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1041&pid=1353&psn=&lid=1&leg=0

SAPPHIRE INFO Quote:
Quote:
The new SAPPHIRE HD 6970 has the same internal architecture as the standard model, with 1536 stream processors and 96 texture processing units, and clock speeds are 880MHz for the core and 1375Mhz (5.5Gb/sec effective) for the 2GB of GDDR5 memory. This new design has two 90mm fans with thin impellers that can move the same amount of air at 10% lower rotation speeds than conventional fans, keeping noise low, and their special dust repelling bearings contribute to high reliability.

With the Dual BIOs set to the standard position, the Dual fans keep this model quiet and up to 25% cooler than the standard model even under load conditions.

With the BIOS switched to the performance setting, the core voltage of the GPU is raised to 1.2V, the fan speed is set to a high performance profile and the powertune adjustment for overclocking is raised to 50% allowing the user to maximise performance of the card by increasing clock speeds either with AMD Overdrive or with SAPPHIRE TriXX
up to a ceiling of 1500 MHz core, 2000 MHz memory. drool.gif

The "1500 MHz core, 2000 MHz memory" part is highly misleading. The card WILL NOT reach those clocks unless it's under LN2 and being fed insane voltages.

If you look at the Pro-Clockers review, their sample reached 991 MHz, a far, far cry from 1500.
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post #25 of 35

Never said it was simple ... just possible ... I don't see many if any other cards laying claim that they CAN do it though.

Still ... keep in mind everyone even in this thread is saying yeah the GTX 560 Ti-448 IF overclocked IF overvolted IF a great GPU chip IF IF IF ...

same is true here ... the Pro-Clockers review did a SIMPLE OC ... no overvolting of the card at all, so I'm sure it can go higher, with stock cooler, higher YET if watercoolerd, and maybe reach said ceiling of 1500 MHz core, 2000 MHz memory on WC or LN2 like you say.  so really ? what's the difference in what if's ... misleading ... maybe a bit ... doable, I don't know but would love to try thumb.gif

 

 

   
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post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA_Kings_Fan View Post

Never said it was simple ... just possible ... I don't see many if any other cards laying claim that they CAN do it though.
Still ... keep in mind everyone even in this thread is saying yeah the GTX 560 Ti-448 IF overclocked IF overvolted IF a great GPU chip IF IF IF ...
same is true here ... the Pro-Clockers review did a SIMPLE OC ... no overvolting of the card at all, so I'm sure it can go higher, with stock cooler, higher YET if watercoolerd, and maybe reach said ceiling of 1500 MHz core, 2000 MHz memory on WC or LN2 like you say.  so really ? what's the difference in what if's ... misleading ... maybe a bit ... doable, I don't know but would love to try thumb.gif

My friend has 2x MSI 6970 Lightnings, which are arguably the best versions of the 6970 that you can buy, with 18 phase VRM circuitry, multiple NEC Prodalizers, etc. Neither one can do much over 1-1.05 GHz even with added voltage. So, I think around 1 GHz is pretty much the limit for most 6970s.

With regard to your second statement, are you seriously claiming the Sapphire card can possibly reach 1.5 GHz on water cooling? If so, that is simply an absurd claim. There is a huge difference between the voltages you can run on water cooling (which can get to a few degrees of ambient at best) and LN2 (which is way below 0C). There is simply no way that even the most cherry-picked 6970 will do 1.5 GHz stable on water cooling. Even wth LN2 and a ridiculous amount of voltage, I'm not sure 1.5 GHz is actually possible.

Essentially, what Sapphire is advertising is the fact that their Trixx software has a slider that goes to 1500 MHz. That does not imply in any way whatsoever that the card will have any chance of reaching those clocks rolleyes.gif

This 1.3 GHz run is the highest I've seen yet on a 6970 under LN2:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?264701-Asus-6970-1300-1450-ln2
Edited by 996gt2 - 12/2/11 at 10:39pm
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post #27 of 35
Thanks man, just ordered one. Can't wait. Almost feels dirty to put it in this current machine though evo.gif. I had the rest of my new build shipped back home, where I'll be from the 20th-Jan 22. New System:

2700K - Intel Retail Edge $115 Shipped
ASRock R67 Extreme6 - $160
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600 -8GBXL - $30
SAPPHIRE HD 6970 2GB GDDR5 - $300
Logitech G500 - IREP FREE

The following will be migrated from my current build:
Corsair H50
Corsair TX750
2x 150GB WD VelociRaptors
ASUS 25.5" LCD 1920 x 1200 2ms

And then large storage HDDs and a CM Centurion 590 with eventual migration to a modded Antec 900.

$605 for that system jump! That's pretty good right?
Edited by CWell1337 - 12/3/11 at 4:22am
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post #28 of 35
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the helpful responses!

And sorry for not clarifying - I am going to play at 1080p for now, I will only buy a new monitor together with a powerful GPU next year.

So the 560 it is for now, at the same price I think it really has the upper hand, I am using a 2 monitor setup so no need for additional monitors anyway. Also I think resale value might be higher, when people start looking for a second SLI card and cannot find one anymore on the regular market.

Looking forward to it, just hoping prices will not drop too much in the coming weeks now, but doubtful.
post #29 of 35
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/video-cards/14955?start=5

This review shows how well the EVGA Classified 560 Ti 448 can OC and often match a stock 580. Extremely impressed!

I had an unlocked TFIII PE/OC 6950 that OC'd fairly well to 940 core and I liked it. It's really a toss up since both are the same price at $299 and can OC well to probably similar speeds overall. Then it becomes a preference of AMD vs nvidia. I'm awaiting the 560 Ti 448 and will do some benchmarking with that after finals.
    
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post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by aznguyen316 View Post

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/video-cards/14955?start=5
This review shows how well the EVGA Classified 560 Ti 448 can OC and often match a stock 580. Extremely impressed!
I had an unlocked TFIII PE/OC 6950 that OC'd fairly well to 940 core and I liked it. It's really a toss up since both are the same price at $299 and can OC well to probably similar speeds overall. Then it becomes a preference of AMD vs nvidia. I'm awaiting the 560 Ti 448 and will do some benchmarking with that after finals.

So what do you think of the 560ti 448 coming from a 6950?
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