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[REG-HARDWARE] Swiss insist file-sharers don't hurt copyright holders - Page 9

post #81 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by IzorkX View Post

I think we need to make it legal world wide.

Yeah man, we got to legalize it!
150
We're talking about lots of stuff.
post #82 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

THQ are falling apart due to the lack of sales. Stalker 2 is being shut down as they don't make enough off of PC sales. Since the potential revenue of the product wasn't there, and those hundreds of thousands of pirates who downloaded their games didn't contribute to their income, then it is safe to say that pirating is indeed destroying the gaming industry.

Any healthy economic system has turnover of companies, it's an essential part of business. Saying that because a few companies that have not had any really successful games lately is evidence of vidego game industry failing is completely wrong. That's like saying because RIM is dying, the smartphone business as a whole is dying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Big players are in all time lows.

830px-Us_revenues_1995-2007.png

The video game industry is booming, in fact it's The fastest growing entertainment industry, period.
If being the fastest growing industry and doubling revenue= being at all time lows, then you seriously need to reevaluate your definition of low.

It's fine to have your own opinion, but please get the facts and basic economic theory correct.
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post #83 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

THQ are falling apart due to the lack of sales. Stalker 2 is being shut down as they don't make enough off of PC sales. Since the potential revenue of the product wasn't there, and those hundreds of thousands of pirates who downloaded their games didn't contribute to their income, then it is safe to say that pirating is indeed destroying the gaming industry.
Big players are in all time lows. They are appealing towards old titles that make profits. Less creativity in the market. Only a select few are making massive gains in the gaming industry. Only a few. Most are just getting by. Wasn't like that before the huge introduction of napster, utorrent, and other commonly used torrenting sites over the years.
When the smart get smarter, they will make more. But it doesn't mean they are getting the profit that they deserve.

Did that ever accrue to you that maybe the games these said game developers have been producing haven't been selling well because they suck or not worth the price tag they are trying to sell for?

Oh, BTW, the thing about Stalker 2
kotaku - Could This Be the End of GSC Game World and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2?
Quote:
Galenkin goes on to say that the reason behind the closure was the cost of developing a big budget PC-only first-person shooter coupled following deals for console versions that never came to fruition.

galyonkin - blog post on his personal website
Quote:
The reason, which I believe - STALKER 2 is obtained only for PC: an agreement with publishers on the console did not work, and self-publishing the game under the console at the GSC does not have resources. Some say that the GSC demanded incredible condition, others that Western publishers do not want to postapokalipsisa from Eastern Europe. It is clear that the story the game on a PC with a target market in Eastern Europe would be sold in small editions.
So no, it wasn't only just about development cost of the PC version, but was also that they never got their money from the console side.
Edited by konoii - 12/9/11 at 2:10pm
post #84 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

Big players are in all time lows.

The actual facts for just how well gaming industry is doing:

EA
Quote:
Electronic Arts confirms in its financial statement for the first quarter of its 2012 fiscal year that revenues grew year-on-year to $999 million USD. T...over double the $96 million USD profit EA posted during the same timeframe last year.
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/16974-ea-quarterly-profit-more-than-doubles-year-on-year/

Activision Blizzard
Quote:
During the year, we grew our net revenues, delivered record earnings,... operating margins of 11 percent and 29 percent, ... generated $1.4 billion in operating cash flow...Activision Blizzard’s key franchises have larger audience bases than ever before
That's right out of their own Financial Statement.
http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm

Valve
Not a public company so doesn't release financial statements but
Quote:
In a Forbes profile of founder Gabe Newell, it's claimed that Valve's digital distribution store now owns between 50% and 70% of the $4 billion business that is downloadable PC games... who suggests Valve's revenue in 2010 was in the "high hundreds of millions of dollars." ...He also stated that, per employee, Valve is more profitable than Google or Apple.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0228/technology-gabe-newell-videogames-valve-online-mayhem.html

There's 3 of the biggest players. Should I keep going?

I'm not arguing that piracy is right, but the facts are pretty clear that is sure isn't hurting the Video game industry. I'm not gonna spend the time pull up the exact numbers for the movie industry as well, but suffice to say it's also increasing and reaching record levels, though not as fast as video games.

Even the Record industry has been experiencing growth.

Worldwide Music industry revenue
2006 ($60.7 billion),
2007 ($61.5 billion),
2008 ($62.6 billion),
2009 ($65.0 billion),
2010 ($66.4 billion),
2011 ($67.6 billion)

http://www.grabstats.com/statmain.asp?StatID=67

Bear in mind all three of these industries are experiencing this growth in the middle of a worldwide recession where most companies have been facing declines, not growth.

I think my point is pretty clear at this point. Piracy is NOT killing any of these industries. If it were, they would not be experiencing record growth and profits in the middle of a recession.
Edited by banthracis - 12/9/11 at 2:27pm
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post #85 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by banthracis View Post

The actual facts for just how well gaming industry is doing:
EA
Quote:
Electronic Arts confirms in its financial statement for the first quarter of its 2012 fiscal year that revenues grew year-on-year to $999 million USD. T...over double the $96 million USD profit EA posted during the same timeframe last year.
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/16974-ea-quarterly-profit-more-than-doubles-year-on-year/
Activision Blizzard
Quote:
During the year, we grew our net revenues, delivered record earnings,... operating margins of 11 percent and 29 percent, ... generated $1.4 billion in operating cash flow...Activision Blizzard’s key franchises have larger audience bases than ever before
That's right out of their own Financial Statement.
http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm
Valve
Not a public company so doesn't release financial statements but
Quote:
In a Forbes profile of founder Gabe Newell, it's claimed that Valve's digital distribution store now owns between 50% and 70% of the $4 billion business that is downloadable PC games... who suggests Valve's revenue in 2010 was in the "high hundreds of millions of dollars." ...He also stated that, per employee, Valve is more profitable than Google or Apple.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0228/technology-gabe-newell-videogames-valve-online-mayhem.html
There's 3 of the biggest players. Should I keep going?

I'm not at all disagreeing with your statements, but just responding to the discussion of video game sales in general, but that Swiss study showed that the amount of money a consumer spent on video games has increased as a function of increased illegal file-sharing (consumers spent less money on music, and more on games, about the same money spent overall, just in different proportions). So arguing about video game industry performance is a moot point since it was shown to not be negatively impacted by illegal file sharing (or so the Swiss say they found in their study).
    
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post #86 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

If it doesn't hurt the industry, then why does DRM exist?
DRM exists to show stupidity of its makers and to hurt paying customers and make their lives harder than it already is.
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post #87 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by banthracis View Post

Worldwide Music industry revenue
2006 ($60.7 billion),
2007 ($61.5 billion),
2008 ($62.6 billion),
2009 ($65.0 billion),
2010 ($66.4 billion),
2011 ($67.6 billion)
http://www.grabstats.com/statmain.asp?StatID=67
Bear in mind all three of these industries are experiencing this growth in the middle of a worldwide recession where most companies have been facing declines, not growth.
I think my point is pretty clear at this point. Piracy is NOT killing any of these industries. If it were, they would not be experiencing record growth and profits in the middle of a recession.

That's a logical fallacy--just because a market appears to display financial growth does not mean that it's not negatively impacted by something. Also, revenue is an ambiguous value since it doesn't account for expenses. Plus, entertainment industries are less-affected by swings in the economy (and contrary to a lot of other markets, people tend to spend more on entertainment media as opposed to other things like going out to eat, going on trips, etc., during economic hardship).
    
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post #88 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

There are a ton of digital music download services to buy songs (along with free streaming services)--how is this a problem of the recording industry sticking with the CD medium too long?

They lack reactivity to new market trends. Piracy is nothing new, of course the internet has increased it by going worldwide but napster was here 10 years ago (or more, not sure) and yet they still want us to buy CDs when most of us want digital copies (legit ones). It's like a label still sticking to vinyl and not selling any CDs at all 15 years ago (not that I would have complained smile.gif )....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Core2uu View Post

Agreed. Spotify, one of the most innovative services presented thus far, has been steadily losing money and has yet to turn a profit. Maybe we can just come to the conclusion that people don't like to pay for what they should.

Spotify (that's the French company right? if not then i apologize. i read about the French music streaming company yesterday on Yahoo news but I can't remember its name. The rest of the post is about that one) lost 30mil Euros the first year of activity mainly because of the launching cost. It is now going worldwide (except US lol). They have 10mil users and have tripled the number of their paying customers. I believe that they've already paid like 15mil Euros to the labels. But of course, universal and a couple of others started whining and forced the said company (dammit I can't remember its name) to limit the time you could listen to an album freely and another label wanted to limit the free listening to 2 songs because the profit made from it was too low(like limiting would bump profit ...). Can't they realize that without this legal offer they wouldn't have gotten anything at all? Now, I am in no way condoning piracy, I'm just wondering how suing people around the world and spending millions on law suits is more profitable than coming up with a new model.

I'm not arrogant enough to say that I have the solution but what the labels are doing right now is sure as heck not the way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

And what exactly does your business do?
Also verify ownership with some links and information please.

Do ya want my bank account details too? i got nothing to prove to you dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Ah, so its greed to want people to pay for the things you spent time making?
Piracy hurts copyright holders, just nowhere near as much as the big corporations would like you (and congress) to think.

Yes it does, but instead of pursuing insanely expensive legal battles that just don't work they couldn't re-think their business strategy.

Economy has always been auto-regulated. Every time a new technology comes out it takes a while for the industries to adapt but they usually always do. Basically my broader question is, what are the labels really doing to adapt themselves to the digital age? New companies like spotify and netflix are trying (I think that the traffic of netflix surpasses p2p network now in the US ... ) just to get shot in the foot by the labels. They want more money, more this, more that ... Again they wouldn't have gotten anything at all without it but they still want more... go figure.

All I'm saying is that there has got to be a better way for them to save their industry than corrupting politicians with schemes like SOPA (oops, you call it lobbying in the US, we call them dirty politicians in Europe). Seriously that the US congress even studies this kind of possibility is beyond me.

Oh well, what are we to do biggrin.gif Now I am off this thread, it's getting political.

Edit: the name of the company that I was referring to is Deezer and not spotify, my bad, sorry.
Edited by yannickhk - 12/9/11 at 2:48pm
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post #89 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by yannickhk View Post

They lack reactivity to new market trends. Piracy is nothing new, of course the internet has increased it by going worldwide but napster was here 10 years ago (or more, not sure) and yet they still want us to buy CDs when most of us want digital copies (legit ones). It's like a label still sticking to vinyl and not selling any CDs at all 15 years ago (not that I would have complained smile.gif )....

I would agree that they seem slow to respond to advancements in technology, but I would say that most media (other than video games) have been. Business models are tough to change once you start going down them. However, even with the perceived slowness of change, if the excuse for music file sharing is because the physical medium isn't wanted, then it's a non-issue since there are a lot of current file distribution methods. Maybe that was not the case a decade ago, but it is today yet people still participate in file-sharing. It's not because of the medium anymore (if it ever really was)--it's because if there's a way for people to get something for free, they'll do it until they can't.
    
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post #90 of 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by yannickhk View Post


Do ya want my bank account details too? i got nothing to prove to you dude.

Why would I want that? Stop being over-dramatic.

If you have nothing to prove then you have nothing to argue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by banthracis View Post

The actual facts for just how well gaming industry is doing:
EA
Quote:
Electronic Arts confirms in its financial statement for the first quarter of its 2012 fiscal year that revenues grew year-on-year to $999 million USD. T...over double the $96 million USD profit EA posted during the same timeframe last year.
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/16974-ea-quarterly-profit-more-than-doubles-year-on-year/
Activision Blizzard
Quote:
During the year, we grew our net revenues, delivered record earnings,... operating margins of 11 percent and 29 percent, ... generated $1.4 billion in operating cash flow...Activision Blizzard’s key franchises have larger audience bases than ever before
That's right out of their own Financial Statement.
http://investor.activision.com/reports.cfm
Valve
Not a public company so doesn't release financial statements but
Quote:
In a Forbes profile of founder Gabe Newell, it's claimed that Valve's digital distribution store now owns between 50% and 70% of the $4 billion business that is downloadable PC games... who suggests Valve's revenue in 2010 was in the "high hundreds of millions of dollars." ...He also stated that, per employee, Valve is more profitable than Google or Apple.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0228/technology-gabe-newell-videogames-valve-online-mayhem.html
There's 3 of the biggest players. Should I keep going?
I'm not arguing that piracy is right, but the facts are pretty clear that is sure isn't hurting the Video game industry. I'm not gonna spend the time pull up the exact numbers for the movie industry as well, but suffice to say it's also increasing and reaching record levels, though not as fast as video games.
Even the Record industry has been experiencing growth.
Worldwide Music industry revenue
2006 ($60.7 billion),
2007 ($61.5 billion),
2008 ($62.6 billion),
2009 ($65.0 billion),
2010 ($66.4 billion),
2011 ($67.6 billion)
http://www.grabstats.com/statmain.asp?StatID=67
Bear in mind all three of these industries are experiencing this growth in the middle of a worldwide recession where most companies have been facing declines, not growth.
I think my point is pretty clear at this point. Piracy is NOT killing any of these industries. If it were, they would not be experiencing record growth and profits in the middle of a recession.

I was referring to people like THQ who make a crap low. If you were able to read down to the last line, you might have understood what I meant.

So, based on your argument, if no sales are given, they still make money? You need to understand how the company actually makes money. Music industry doesn't make there money by selling CDs. Gaming industry on the other hand, makes their money based on sales.

Doesn't matter how much a company is making compared to previous. If you understood how markets grow then you'd understand that. The gaming industry is growing, but only a few companies are making it big. Most of the little guys, or quality players, don't make enough as they should to invest in their next big title. Have fun enjoying the same game year after year because you care about giving crap companies more money. The industry should have been more, because the companies make their money on sales, not by events.

Valve and blizzard are exceptions. They actually make quality products.

Stop trying to argue that when a company doesn't make sales, or in the end relies on moral grounding to make their sales of a physical product, then no, sorry, you'll just get laughed at. If you understand market theory, then how do you think grocery stores make their money? The food retail just continues to grow, and as more and more people populate the country, so does products stolen. Doesn't mean they are not at a low. But the moment you think that piracy doesn't hurt the industry, then you might want to actually understand what you are talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by konoii View Post

Did that ever accrue to you that maybe the games these said game developers have been producing haven't been selling well because they suck or not worth the price tag they are trying to sell for?
Oh, BTW, the thing about Stalker 2
kotaku - Could This Be the End of GSC Game World and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2?
galyonkin - blog post on his personal website
So no, it wasn't only just about development cost of the PC version, but was also that they never got their money from the console side.

Saint Rows 3? Company of heroes? Should I go on?

GG.
Edited by Domino - 12/9/11 at 2:58pm
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