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[Escapist] StarCraft 2 Threatens to Zerg Rush Chess For Science - Page 11

post #101 of 115
I fail to understand how the rock paper scissor aspect of SC2...that is one of the quick decisions you have to make. OK they are coming at me with that unit so i need some of this unit to counter them with. No matter what you do some units will not win against some other type of unit...there might be a few that are decent against everything, but don't really excel against any one unit type.

it's just a game...I could careless about watching "pro" gamers. Sure I am noob compared to them...I could careless, but for having played the game about 30 hours in multiplayer or so I think I am decent. I find my self playing it no different then most other RTS game though. I build units as fast as I can while trying to figure out what the other person/people are doing while trying to prevent them from seeing what I am doing until I am ready to show them.

again...it has as much to do with Chess style game play as it does basket weaving. So i can't see how it could replace Chess in a brain study. It could enhance a brain study, but you would still need the Chess aspects for it to be complete unless you don't care about brain activity in Chess in the particular study. I think you need a game like Final Fantasy X or some other "Turn based game" to replace chess.

Hmm...actually i wonder how a real time game of Chess might work. That might be fun.
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post #102 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post

confused.gif so no strategy, logic, or cognitive ability is necessary to be a master of SC2...

You should be confused because that isn't what I said. Almost every game requires some type of strategy, logic and cognitive ability to win but there is a distinct difference between SC2 and chess. Chess is 100% thought. In SC2, non-thinking quick twitch APM or exploits like magic box is king.
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post

but, if there's no strategy or logic or thinking involved in SC2, how can there be multiple tiers? How can some people be better at it than others?
To me, SC2 is similar to Marvel v. Capcom. There IS strategy involved, but its also heavily APM dependent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post

I can't draw this together, but this bland sterotyping statement about how only ADD idiot hampsters are good at SC2 seems to be exactly what you're railing against in your signature with rap...

Trolololol. You're comparing a video game to a form of music that gets hate largely due to racial undertones.

And I never called people who play SC2 idiots but there was a study or two comparing them and ADD.
    
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post #103 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

What is the difference between Starcraft 2 and any other RTS game? In terms of this discussion anyway. It's usually a case of who ever makes the most units, or the most larger units, first wins. If you are out gunned in SC2 you can't use any sort of strategy to pull a win out of your hat. If you have a massive horde or marines coming at you...you are likely going to be toast since even if you fight it off there will be another one before you can rebuild. Perhaps if you are micro managing your units really good and the other guy is just giving this units the attack command and forgetting them, but if they are good enough to get a large army going faster they probably aren't going to do that.
That, and Starcraft 2 is a lot like rock paper scissors. Like if some one is using the marine rush I mentioned, there a few tactics that will counter it and make it fail pretty hard. however, if your opponent uses those strategies and you don't use the marine rush you are pretty much guarantied to win.


Wrong. Lol that's the beauty of this game. Even if you are out gunned there is a chance your opponents skill, attention, task management, or decision making can slip and allow you to get back into the game by capitalizing on your opponents mistake. Yes, you see this more in the higher tier of play, but that is the exact pool data the op is talking about. Not all rts are as balanced.
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post #104 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkO View Post

I think he's saying that because he sucks at SC2 and is envious that another country is a master at it.
Come to think of it, what e-games are Americans good at? Um…Madden? Oh that's right, Americans are only good at the e-games Asians show no interest in.

You sound insecure. What I wrote has nothing to do with my country. Why would I even care if another country is great at a vide game?! I've got grown man concerns like education, employment, my house and my family to waste even 1 second of my time hating on a game.

And for the record, I find SC2 fun and I've probably burned something like +200 hrs playing but I find that it is too dependent on the speed of your build to be a true strategy game. It illustrates my point when being 10-20 second s behind your competition in a 30 min game is all you need to lose.
    
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post #105 of 115
LOL....Chess vs SC2, interesting.

Btw, Zerg is so OP. nuff said.
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post #106 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiden911 View Post

LOL....Chess vs SC2, interesting.
Btw, Zerg is so OP. nuff said.

Too much said. I dont recall ever saying Protoss, or Terran was OP when they were the ones winning the GSL, and MLGs.

Stay on subject please.
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post #107 of 115
Quote:
Quote:
Sorry but your wrong. Don't be mad.

Why would you even say that? You don't have any supporting arguments and you just resort to, "No, you're wrong". Then you try some sort of ... what. Mad? Why would I be mad? Are you upset that your favorite game is not the most complex RTS on the planet? Are you that attached to a game that it effects you like this?

Dude...seriously?

You can't explain thing to some people because they are either idiots or refuse to think from a different standpoint. I generally put the knowledge out there for people to digest and if people are too stupid then I just post something like that. All the information that is needed is already posted in previous posts of mine and if you can't take a step back from that point I don't think its worth my time to try to convince anyone. I wouldn't want more bronzies to inflate my rating. I don't really actually care what other people think. Your responsibility ends at exposing people to information imo.

Pretty sure broodwar is the most complex and hardest RTS with sc2 being a close 2nd. And yes I do defend the things I love, one of which is starcraft. And I don't love starcraft because its starcraft, I love it because its an extremely competitive skill based game with a huge skill cap. If starcraft 2 was too easy it wouldn't be worth playing to me (story was actually bad in sc2). I can easily respect other games that I either hate, ie fighting games, or don't play but don't prefer, i.e Quake, and understand the amount of dedication and skill in those games.
post #108 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post

Lol, no no no no and no. There is no comparison between chess and SC2. Chess is 100% strategy, logic and cognitive ability. SC2 is a fast-twitch game disguised as a pseudo-intellectual one. One appeals to geniuses, the other appeals to hampsters with severe ADD.

"Im bad at Starcraft. I quit because it was too hard and I got my poop pushed in. I am going to insult starcraft on the internet to validate my ego. If you play starcraft you are a stupid, ha that showed them."

ADD doesn't help at all in sc2, you know, its a game that requires focus. In fact some progamers are taking ADD meds to heighten their focus even though they don't have ADD. You mad u wrong bro?


Where is the fast twitch in starcraft? You mean casting spells? Sure forcefield and other spells do require fast twitch but thats not even a large part of the game. The rest is just being consistently fast that doesnt require "fast-twitch" because these actions are predetermined and used in consistent ways that aren't reactionary. Also there are pros with as low as 140apm such as the legendary 36? year old whitera and other pros who have 300+ like Select and all inbetween. Anyone with a healthy body and not much brain damage is capable of playing starcraft at a masters level if they put in the effort. This game is like true capitalism and rewards skill. Its so beautiful. Like if Jessica Alba was a video game. Yeh....
post #109 of 115
biggrin.gif yay! Sc2 = good for the mind biggrin.gif
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post #110 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post

You should be confused because that isn't what I said. Almost every game requires some type of strategy, logic and cognitive ability to win but there is a distinct difference between SC2 and chess. Chess is 100% thought. In SC2, non-thinking quick twitch APM or exploits like magic box is king.
To me, SC2 is similar to Marvel v. Capcom. There IS strategy involved, but its also heavily APM dependent.

You are so very wrong. These are what the layman thinks are king... same goes for FPS games where people admire twitch hitscan and the ability to pull off rediculous movements or shots... unfortunately this is not what matters.

I can use myself as an example. I played 1v1 extremely competitively for several years. I'm not pro, not even close, but I could hold my own against several high level players. I can out-aim many players of far higher skill but it simply doesn't matter in a 1v1 situation... you will be out-played on a much lower level.

Hell, watching Europe's top 1v1 player was like watching paint dry. His play is systematic, boring, and effective - even the fastest games ever made turn towards chess-style logic at a high level. At this top-tier, the layman's fancy moves are just routine.
    
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