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[Escapist] StarCraft 2 Threatens to Zerg Rush Chess For Science - Page 6

post #51 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

What is the difference between Starcraft 2 and any other RTS game? In terms of this discussion anyway. It's usually a case of who ever makes the most units, or the most larger units, first wins. If you are out gunned in SC2 you can't use any sort of strategy to pull a win out of your hat. If you have a massive horde or marines coming at you...you are likely going to be toast since even if you fight it off there will be another one before you can rebuild. Perhaps if you are micro managing your units really good and the other guy is just giving this units the attack command and forgetting them, but if they are good enough to get a large army going faster they probably aren't going to do that.
That, and Starcraft 2 is a lot like rock paper scissors. Like if some one is using the marine rush I mentioned, there a few tactics that will counter it and make it fail pretty hard. however, if your opponent uses those strategies and you don't use the marine rush you are pretty much guarantied to win.

someones never watched SC2 pro tournaments
post #52 of 115
For eSports!


This is pretty exciting.
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post #53 of 115
Fast forward to 38:20 then 39:40



Edited by kikkO - 12/9/11 at 9:18pm
 
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post #54 of 115
Meh, SC2 only got this consideration as it is popular. Company of Heroes is a game more set towards strategy and tactics then Starcraft.

Starcraft and Chess only share the similarities in which nearly ALL strategy games share. Like others have said, chess is turned based. Speed chest is more similar to starcraft.

Generally speaking, SC is primitive compared to the elements expressed in CoH. And although SC2 and CoH are radically different on the RTS tree, and both have their levels of complexity, simplicity, etc., they don't quite share the same characteristics of chess. Chess is radically different.

However, most competitive RTS games do show significantly more challenging aspects that put them leaps and bounds above chess.
post #55 of 115
-Attacking opponent's front with main army and deciding whether it's a good time for engaging or if you should pull back
-deciding to pull workers to make your main army beat your opponent's main army
-deciding to pull workers to and from Gas on around 4-5 bases
-deciding to pull workers from 1 base to another
-deciding to harass opponents other expansions and which ones if you can't do all
-deciding if spreading creep in multiple locations is possible or opponent will snipe it
-attempting multiple scouts of opponent's main and deciding which way (if any) will be successful
-deciding where to send your next overlords and lings for map control
-deciding which, or all watch towers to try to take control of
-deciding how to react to opponent's current army composition
-deciding how to react to opponent's possible future composition after scouting their structures
-deciding if you need another expansion
-deciding to sacrifice an expansion being attacked or save it
-deciding whether un-burrowing banes now under a few units or leave them there for later
-deciding if you need upgrades or more units

all those decisions and many more probably take the space of 10 seconds tops on a pros mind mid game and making the wrong choice in just one of them will cost you the game at that level of play.
Quote:
button mashing

yep, SC2 requires no thinking at all
Edited by Sainesk - 12/9/11 at 9:44pm
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post #56 of 115
I suck in both chess and sc2, no wonder im not the 1%. However, I believe SC2 doesnt give you time to think much, you just react the way you best know how. In chess on the other hand, you could go from losing to winning in a couple of smart moves because the game just requires you to take down the king and not all his units.
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post #57 of 115
Geez, everyone is making out that SC2 is the best RTS there. Not my cup of tea as an RTS fan to be honest.
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post #58 of 115
I am coming to the understanding that this is a fad and will eventually go away as an argument. Chess has been around a long time and most likely will not go away any time soon. The biggest thing that got me was why did the choose SC2 over any other RTS game out there??? I am thinking either because of its popularity or Blizzard must have done some under the table dealling...ph34r-smiley.gif

And what doesn't really make sense is that GO (Weiqi) is one of the most intellectually difficult strategy game in the world. Starcraft is just a fade and will pass when the next thing comes along.
Quote:
While the Baroque rules of chess could only have been created by humans, the rules of go are so elegant, organic, and rigorously logical that if intelligent life forms exist elsewhere in the universe, they almost certainly play go."

-- Edward Lasker

Overall, trying to compare a video game with chess as a way to gauge scientific research is absurd. You are comparing apples to oranges. Different strategies required and different brain functions required. Both need memory of previous moves and future moves, but where SC2 requires multitasking, chess requires complete and singular focus. So where one is about speed and multi-tasking to gain more and gain it faster, the other is about focusing on one single problem for lengthy periods of time. There is purpose in both sides of this.teaching.gif

I believe that the scientific study of chess and the human brain is exhausted and that is why they have shifted focus to multitasking and speed performing multiple tasks. Both of which the human brain has a difficult time with, but when one is raised around these two different functions then we see that it becomes easier to do. Such as a child raised playing chess where he can commit intense focus onto a single task, while the millennials, Generation-Y, have been around computers and technology their entire lives. Therefore, they understand and have exercised their multitasking side and can perform many things without much focus on a single task but split over multiple tasks. typer.gif
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post #59 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploppytheman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster 
In chess a master play will never lose to a player. While that may be true, that does not indicate an element of luck. Certain maps and spawn positions may offer opportunities for certain players and/or races in that position, but it's minimal enough to be discounted; besides, if your opponent has a terrain advantage you can play until it's obsolete, play defensively with micro drop in attacks until you can open up opportunities, lure them into scenarios where you have the upper hand, etc. If you rely on your opponent doing a certain build, you're definitely gambling and yes, luck will play in -- due to your choice. These are the charms of SC2. No, none of those things are in chess, but in terms of strategic depth, I insist SC2 is chess on crack.

Mistaking SC2's volatility with "luck" is just defeatism causing you to oversimplify your reasons for losing.
Being a chess master is completely different than being master league in stacraft. Being in master league generally, but not always, means you have a solid mechanical and understanding of the game but are nowhere near being good unless you are in Korea. Being masters league in Korea is still not being a grandmaster in chess though, being a top pro is the closest thing to a grandmaster.
Those terms are there to inflate people's ego and sense of worth on games just like consolization, casualization, achievements, and the general removing of skill from games. This way more people will play and not realize how terrible they are, which ironically keeps most from getting further.
Also I will say it again SC is played in a best of format so the better player usually wins anyway. But to judge a radically changing baby game that has changed more than chess has in in CENTURIES of existance in its first year alone means that there will be randomness and upsets.
Nothing you said had anything even remotely to do with anything I said. Why did you quote me?

Edit: These are some fun ones.

Edited by Mookster - 12/9/11 at 11:13pm
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post #60 of 115
I thought at their cores all RTS games are essentially rock paper scissors, unit A is good against unit B but weak against unit C IMO.
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