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[RS] CD Projekt Threatening Alleged Pirates. - Page 11

post #101 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayzaStarr View Post

Wouldn't sending out all these letters to people, which are being delivered to people who haven't even heard of the game, cost an exorbitant amount of money compared to the...~1 person who might send in $900. CD Projekt you aren't the first to be pirated...

Trust me they will get way more than 1 person paying their fine. I've seen this sort of thing done before and a lot of people will pay up, it would be insanely costly to go to court and then lose (which they know they will if they are actually guilty), and even though you know it's unlikely they will proceed with it, it will keep you up at night worrying.
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post #102 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by olli3 View Post

Trust me they will get way more than 1 person paying their fine. I've seen this sort of thing done before and a lot of people will pay up, it would be insanely costly to go to court and then lose (which they know they will if they are actually guilty), and even though you know it's unlikely they will proceed with it, it will keep you up at night worrying.

If you have done nothing wrong defend yourself. My guess is the people who receive these letters stole the game and they know it. These kinds of cases award attorney fees to the loser. So if you haven't done anything wrong you will be vindicated legally and financially.
post #103 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by olli3 View Post

Trust me they will get way more than 1 person paying their fine. I've seen this sort of thing done before and a lot of people will pay up, it would be insanely costly to go to court and then lose (which they know they will if they are actually guilty), and even though you know it's unlikely they will proceed with it, it will keep you up at night worrying.

That is true it would cost a lot more for court fees in which they wouldn't win cases anyways but at the same time this sounds like it could be illegal...idk
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post #104 of 142
A lot of ignorance in this thread.

Simply put, the action of this company is wrong. When you send out threatening letters to people demanding money that is extortion.

Furthermore, you cannot effectively track someone with an IP address, and that has proven many times before. Granted they might be using something different, but they decided to keep that a secret and proclaim its 100% accurate. So pretty much useless.

Just because we defend the rights of people, to be entitled to "innocent until proven guilty", does not make us pirates.

You can side with the company all you want, but (assume you are in Germany) when that letter shows up at your house, how pleased would you be? You say that you will never get the letter, but how can you be sure of that? How could you possibly be certain that you will not get that letter?!
post #105 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by amtbr View Post

The suit does have merit if they are sending the letters, lawyers are bound by ethical standards not to bring frivolous cases. I know some of you will snicker at that, but its the truth, despite popular misconceptions. So its not like these letters are being sent out of the blue to anyone. The letters reduce costs for BOTH sides and lessen the impact on the judicial system. Litigating these kinds of cases is expensive and time consuming. In the end CDP may win, but then the likelihood of them collecting a judgment against these people who pirate is slim to none. CDP has to do this potentially thousands of time. It doesnt make sense economically to go at it this way.

I see value in reducing the cost to both sides, but ultimately this is a convenience matter for CDP. Most of these people wouldn't have to pay a dime if CDP had to take them to court, so really it is only reducing costs on CDP side as a matter of business sense.

I don't trust a company to bring a non frivolous suit when they are under zero scrutiny from a judge. History and common sense dictate that a anyone should need to present a compelling argument to withdraw money from thousands of people at the same time. When they choose not to disclose their methods or amounts of fines, I have little choice but not to trust them. A company has no ethics, so it is all the more important they be bound by a legal process and scrutinized in a court room.

I don't care how much sense it makes financially for the company or how inconvenient the proper legal process is. They need to play by the rules just like any person in the world would have to or move on. Most of these people probably are guilty, and CDP probably does deserve the money they pay, but the sending of these letters is (in my opinion) trash.

Lobby for reform if you don't agree with the legal process or work it into your business model. That's what I'd have to do.
    
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post #106 of 142
If they are 100% sure that these people indeed pirated their game, then why aren't they suing them? Why waste time sending extortion letters and just send them a summons to appear in court? Because their proof isn't 100%. If they could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these people did steal their game, then they are guaranteed to win in court, which in turn guarantees compensation from the guilty party. I believe in the prosecution of pirates, but you HAVE TO PROVE IT. What they are doing is legal extortion. What they are doing should be considered criminal, sending threatening letters without showing the proof of the alleged crime.
post #107 of 142
Theyre just using the same tactics as ACS Law did in the UK, that didnt end very well for them to be honest, so lets hope their infallible way of tracking these alleged pirates isnt the same ACS Law was using in the UK.rolleyes.gif

See where this tactic got ACS Lawyers below.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/367885/acs-law-solicitor-is-bankrupt
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13358896
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/19/acs-law-solicitor-filesharing-claims
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/story/2011/02/08/uk-judge-prevents-defunct-acslaw-from-killing-internet-copyright-file-sharing-cases.html

This was in the UK but I wouldnt be too surprised if the law in Germany was so different from ours and it all comes tumbling down around them with these stupid fishing for money tactics rather than following the proper legal routes which there are.
On further reading this isnt the first time a Witcher title has been involved with MediaCat (Not confirmed its them but wouldnt surprise me again as its the same law firm representing them as in 2007) and that time it was admitted that they were possibly sending these letters to innocent people back in 2007 through the law firm.
Edited by davieg - 12/16/11 at 9:46am
    
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post #108 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post

They don't directly refute the 900 euro charge. They say it is less than the amount circulating on the internet (uh where on the internet, how much less, define "rich") and won't disclose any other details. That's pretty much saying nothing at all and implying what they want you to hear. I would like to hear them say an average. They'd like you to think it is 50 euro, but the fact is they haven't said anything at all about the amount.
Right they are uhhh... doing something secret and different that according to the people selling it works 100%
Look, NOTHING is 100% effective. Nothing ever made by anyone ever. Even if they dissect every case down to the bone so they know they can win this in court, that still doesn't matter. THIS IS ABOUT THE RIGHT/WRONG of legal strong arming, not the guilt or innocence of the people they are targeting.... If you can prove beyond a doubt they did it, take them to court like the rest of the world has to. I don't condone legal offices leveraging the fear of the public RIGHT OR WRONG to make their money.
If they are charging a very small amount to people who definitely pirate the game, I can see the value in that. But I still staunchly disagree with some legal office sending out the letter to pay up with the threat of further legal action. This is like cops strong arming people out of their rights, guilty or not.

First of all, and this is pretty basic - they DO directly refute the 900 euro charge. Saying "the amount circulating on the internet [900 euros] is incorrect" is a direct refutation of the 900 euro charge. They haven't disclosed the amount and that alone is indirect refutation of the 900 euro claim, but we also have an CDPR VP shooting down explicitely and directly the "amount circulating on the internet," which we at OCN know to be 900 euros.

Secondly, if you think that CDPR, a company with a widespread reputation for honest, direct dealings with their customer base is outright lying to us about their piracy tracking methods, well - you're entitled to your opinion, even if it has no basis in reality.

Thirdly, your analogy is vastly flawed. Assuming that CDP is only targeting criminals (and, based upon their reputation, we have no reason not to assume that, unless we're just fanning flames, of course), the company has every right to demand recompense for their stolen goods. They aren't asking for 900 euros, remember? We already established that as a lie. So who, exactly, is having their rights violated? Pirates? Nope.Try again.
Edited by flyingsaucers - 12/16/11 at 9:25am
post #109 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsaucers View Post

First of all, and this is pretty basic - they DO directly refute the 900 euro charge. Saying "the amount circulating on the internet [900 euros] is incorrect" is a direct refutation of the 900 euro charge. They haven't disclosed the amount and that alone is indirect refutation of the 900 euro claim, but we also have an CDPR VP shooting down explicitely and directly the "amount circulating on the internet," which we at OCN know to be 900 euros.

I'll concede that because it is pretty likely they are talking about the 900 euro amount. However it isn't about 900 euro, it is about too much euro. They don't say they aren't charging an exorbitant amount, just that they aren't charging 900. Either way, neither of us knows because CDP won't say. I am left to assume it is exorbitant.
Quote:
Secondly, if you think that CDPR, a company with a widespread reputation for honest, direct dealings with their customer base is outright lying to us about their piracy tracking methods, well - you're entitled to your opinion, even if it has no basis in reality.

I don't know anyone at CDP personally, so my decision is based on their actions. If you trust someone who will not tell you the details of what you are trusting based on their public opinion, some people would call that naive. I'm not inclined to trust someone based on their reputation, rather their actions.
Quote:
So who, exactly, is having their rights violated? Pirates? Nope.Try again.

No one is having their rights violated, we were never talking about violating rights or breaking laws........

Even if guilty, it is not fair to offer a settlement to someone who has NO IDEA about law, and is afraid to ask. You are putting them over a barrel and scaring them. Anyways, you've made some good points and I feel like I'm swimming in a circle here so I'm going to head home wink.gif
    
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post #110 of 142
From what I hear, CDP is not the first company to do this in Germany. Nearly every other company in Germany does this crap. So, we can't just boycott all companies who do this.

I still disapprove, however.
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