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[RS] CD Projekt Threatening Alleged Pirates. - Page 13

post #121 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvese View Post

If you're innocent then go ahead and go to court and prove it. You can get them to pay the legal fees and for the inconvenience.
Again, if you're innocent then you have nothing to fear.
Some people here make it sound as if most people that pirate know how to spoof/hide their IPs. We're talking about the same people that don't know how to PW their wifis and other computer related things.

First of all, even if you defend yourself and win, you will now need to countersue for legal fees, and go through a grueling process for the courts to determine the approiate legal fees you should be paying vs what you owe. THEN if you manage to get a judgement you now need to chase after the person who owes you money through various means as wage garnishment and bank seizure. Good luck with either. If you get a property lien good luck waiting years or decades, sometimes never ever before they sell.
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post #122 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post

I'll concede that because it is pretty likely they are talking about the 900 euro amount. However it isn't about 900 euro, it is about too much euro. They don't say they aren't charging an exorbitant amount, just that they aren't charging 900. Either way, neither of us knows because CDP won't say. I am left to assume it is exorbitant.
I don't know anyone at CDP personally, so my decision is based on their actions. If you trust someone who will not tell you the details of what you are trusting based on their public opinion, some people would call that naive. I'm not inclined to trust someone based on their reputation, rather their actions.
No one is having their rights violated, we were never talking about violating rights or breaking laws........
Even if guilty, it is not fair to offer a settlement to someone who has NO IDEA about law, and is afraid to ask. You are putting them over a barrel and scaring them. Anyways, you've made some good points and I feel like I'm swimming in a circle here so I'm going to head home wink.gif

This is a direct quote from you -

"If they are charging a very small amount to people who definitely pirate the game, I can see the value in that. But I still staunchly disagree with some legal office sending out the letter to pay up with the threat of further legal action. This is like cops strong arming people out of their rights, guilty or not."

Hence my comment. This is nothing like having your rights violated. This is a company enforcing its rights.

If you're going to base your opinion of a company on its "actions," you might try familiarizing yourself with some of the company's, yknow... actions? Other than the one alleged action that you disagree with. A company's reputation is built from its actions. It doesn't just appear out of nowhere. CDPR has a strong reputation in the gaming community as being extremely generous to its customers. They're championing PC-centric development and tech, as well as leading the crusade against restrictive DRM. Any copy of The Witcher 2 bought on GOG is DRM free. CDPR took a huge monetary hit from that action due to piracy, but to them, it was worth it to make their customers happy. In an effort to recuperate some of their losses, they're now going after the pirates. And, according to them, only the pirates. If you were familiar with the company, you probably wouldn't automatically assume that they're lying about who gets billed for stolen software. That isn't their style.
Edited by flyingsaucers - 12/16/11 at 5:36pm
post #123 of 142
wow just wow to all the peeps defending there tactics your the reason big company's get away with f**king people over the law is there for a reason and they are trying to circumvent it plain and simple but wait that's right i must be a pirate because im defending my and others right to due process oh and if they where enforcing there rights they should do it the same way every other sob has to instead of the strong arm tactic there using
Edited by sarpadon - 12/16/11 at 7:23pm
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post #124 of 142
Ahh, I love you guys.

All you moral brigade crusaders are like "RAH RAH RAH PIRACY IS WRONG!!!", which I generally agree with. However, I find it utterly abhorrent that you find nothing wrong with a company that uses borderline illegal tactics to get money that it may have or may not have lost.

It's like this quote : "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." You guys don't care about abuse of the system because it doesn't pertain to you. I will bet you the farm that if ANYONE you knew was caught in this net without downloading it would be singing a completely different tune. The core issue isn't piracy, it's the disgusting method of contacting people, never mind that they can't even prove that an IP=person.

Also, let's not forget that there are studies that suggest that piracy improves sales (Music, Software, etc etc). Also, again, not condoning piracy here, but generally people who pirate stuff won't buy it/can't afford it, so the OMG LOST PROFITS argument doesn't apply.
    
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post #125 of 142
These threatening letters are basically extortion letters. But technology is always a step ahead, people just need to switch to other methods of downloading.
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post #126 of 142
I have done things before, you know the risks going into these kinds of situations. If you got it then bought it kudos, because it was a pretty dang good game short of a few annoyances here and there.it's been on sale all week...seriously?If you torrented it and are worried?... go buy it haha as long as you didn't upload to millions I doubt they'd care. You still bought the game and have a legit copy.

Yes I'm aware this will be a hated post I really don't care people who play a game before buying it are perfectly acceptable IN MY OPINION. Maybe not yours, but with as much trouble as a lot of games are nowadays most of them aren't worth the hassle.

Same thing with people complaining about emulators. If you own the game anyways nobody should have a say.

Moral of the story, if you torrent and liked it BUY THE GAME or at least have other people buy it to share the experience and save up for the sale. If you didn't like the game... well you should of looked at the game a bit better first ahha
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post #127 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey92 View Post

Why are people angry here? You honestly think they're going to go after people without some substantial reason? As long as their strategies don't hurt paying customers why are you all getting so butthurt about it?

Have you not read what we've posted? Let me make it very simple. The problem with these campaigns is that an IP address does not at all guarantee you are going to end up with the person who did the actual infringing. We've seen this with other settlement letter campaigns. Many people ended up being targeted who had never even knew about the media in question. There was even at least one case where the person in question was in their 80s and didn't even own a computer.

So now that we've established that innocent non-infringers can be targeted under this scheme what defense do they have? Just imagine you let your friend use your wireless and his torrent client was running in the background. He may not have even realized but now they've pulled your IP as infringing their copyright. You get a letter and now you don't even know how they accused you b/c you've never downloaded anything. So you go see a lawyer and looks at the letter, which asks for something like $1,800, and he tells you that to defend yourself in court will cost at least $2,000 and you might lose.

In that scenario a lot of people are just going to pay out. They lose either way but at least they save a little money and a lot of hassle just paying the amount. Also remember CD Projekt has authorized third party lawyers to do this and those lawyers have one interest in the whole matter, sending out as many settlement letters as they can so they can make as much money as they can. They have almost no interest in making sure the person threatened had anything to do with any infringement, they just want to get settlement letters in as many people's hands as possible. They know only a certain percentage will be bullied into paying and guess what, they are not going to take any of these people to court.

If they have to take people to court then it doesn't really generate much profit. So they just send out the threatening letters hoping that will be enough to get people to pay up, no matter what they did. I buy my games and I have supported GOG, purchasing 32 games so far through them. But this kind of stuff is too predatory. Others in the US and the UK have tried this and the courts have so far not been very kind to them. Do a little reading up on it, Ars Technica has some great articles about this type of scheme.

EDIT: Here is a link to an Ars story about a similar scheme being run in the US. They were sued.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/11/p2p-settlement-lawyers-lied-committed-fraud-says-new-lawsuit.ars
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post #128 of 142
I'm very disappointed with most of what I've been reading here so far. You guys like companies do whatever they want to in order to enforce their logic and reasons. So, before I get my hands dirty, I'll try to explain why so many people is wrong...and why some law systems just sucks.

First of all, every party has the right to defend its interests, and nobody is arguing against it. Its only natural to allow everybody to speak and defend what they've fought so hard for, but in order to do that in an appropriate manner, we have plenty of rules for it, and a neutral party to decide who and why is right; we don't have a justice system for nothing, but because its the only way of doing tings right.

Now, lets try to analyse whats going on here, shall we? CDP is trying to protect its property, and in order to do it they...
  • Are sending extorting letters to alleged infractors
  • Are deciding what is a "fair" compensation
  • Are deciding who is an alleged infractor
  • Are threatening people to pay or be seen in court.

Now, should anybody here understand even slightly the role of justice...it would be clear that ALL THOSE ACTIONS CDP ARE DOING AREN'T ENTITLED TO THEM. You just can't decide what is a fair compensation, nor sent letters to alleged infractors, nor do any of those related actions because you are in no position to make such claims.

Do you even know why all of that is possible? It is because companies have way too much power in too many countries, but luckily it doesn't work at all this way here, in Spain. Why?
  • You can't extort nobody no matter what. Anybody did anything wrong? Sure, meet them in court. But once there you just can't drop charges in exchange for money because the system itself will work as defendant/offendant depending on the case.
  • You can't even sent those letters because you can't know who is behing any IP...only a judge can ask for the release of such IP's, and If you ever found out that the information you gave to a company has been shared whatsoever with any other entity without your permission not only all charges against you would be invalid but the fines against those sharing personal information would be so high they would never do it again.
  • Not only you need to proof in front of a jury/judge what kind of loss did you had...you also have them agree with you.

Also, justice systems througout the world are in the wrong-doing because there is no "loser pays all" that should be a MUST for any decent system. Why should I pay my lawyer when I didn't even start the case in the first place? If somebody claims I've been doing something ilegal but the jury decides against it, why should I pay money for it? I shouldn't.

This extortion letters work in very weak law systems, because you either:
  • You pay for the damages they ask in their letters
  • You see them in court, pay a ton of money...and have no assurance that you won't lose and end up paying even more

And it doesn't even matter if you are innocent or you aren't, its so damn expensive to defend yourself that you have no choice but to pay and shut up....and thats why we don't have this problems here (not that we don't have tons of others rolleyes.gif though), because as this cases have almost no standing at all they would lose plenty of them and, as they'd make no money whatsoever, they just don't bother starting it in the first place; and don't get yourselves fooled either, they start this "wars" only because of the earning they can get through shady tactics, circumventing the legal systems that so effort took to build in the first place.

----

Now, I do pay for each and every single game I have played in the last 4-5 years...but although I haven't played The Wticher at all I don't think I'll ever will because I just hate these shady tactics and won't support a group that does it in anyway.

Want to sell more copies? Then do something about it and try to put more value into it, but stop threatening people for gods sake, extorting should be as ilegal as it gets. Ah! And don't let me start about all the piracy crap they spout all day long about how for copying a game the fine is bigger than stealing something that has the same value market of it. How the heck is that something even fair to start with? CDP has become to greedy for my taste, they can just close the studios and be done with it for all I care. Now, should they want to become something else...they should start looking at Valve because they clearly have some idea what value means and try to put as much as possible in every single release. Thats why I support them to death.

PS: I just don't understand how the US has such a bad justice system, seriously. Its only good for one party, the lawyers one, and that should be clear to everybody all around.

PSS: for gods sake, stop talking about piracy as if its theft: PIRACY IS NOT THEFT. Go get a dictionary and educate yourself, everytime the same subject arises I have to learn the same nonsense all around about "criminals", "thieves" and all that amount of bs.
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post #129 of 142
I don't know the laws in Germany, but in many American jurisdictions, a prerequisite to filing a small claims suit (such as one for ~$1000) is to send a letter or otherwise demand the relief from the party you allege wronged you. This is not extortion, it's good business and could be a legal requirement before taking further action. It is FAR scarier to receive a Complaint filed with a court instituting a legal action than it is to receive a demand letter.

What does concern me is the method of pirate identification they use. I will be anxiously awaiting any further information on that.
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post #130 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsaucers View Post

For the third time, CDPR are NOT simply tracking IPs. They're using an "undisclosed method" that, according to the VP of Business Development @ CDPR, is supposedly 100% accurate.


Because yeah, such thing as a 100% accurate system exists anywhere rolleyes.gif
    
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