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My Ubuntu Tips

post #1 of 15
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Hi guys

I think it's time for me to give again as I take so much from yourselves and this site.. so here I am to share.
Wubi has changed a lot over the last couple of years, now you can hit a button and it will download and install for you. just an FYI there.

Single files and folders in Wubi

1. you don't need duplicate folders in Windows and Ubuntu, you can keep everything in one place, this is especially handy on a new Wubi install. navigate to System>Host from the root drive and you should find your C/: drive then go to your Windows user folder.

2.Have a second window handy and cut and paste all your Ubuntu files to the appropriate folders eg Ubuntu pictures to Windows pictures and Ubuntu documents to Windows Documents, do this for everything, but your choice if you want to skip downloads.

3. delete all these Ubuntu folders from the sidebar. you can keep the actual folders if you like.

4.put the Windows ones there instead.

5.go to Chrome or Firefox or whatever, and change the download folder to the Windows Download folder or just in Windows Documents. if you didn't change it to windows before in step 2, then skip this step.

and done!


This will save you needless wasted space, and increase the amount of Ubuntu programs you can install in Wubi,last time I checked, Wubi had a 32GB limit.for the FAT32 file system.

Terminal Install

installing in terminal can be daunting if you are new, even when you're not, like me, i still hope i don't have to install via Terminal, even today, after 5 plus years of Ubuntu.

so IF you HAVE to, and I hope Linux Dev listen and just make .debs (the Ubuntu/Debian .exe)
here is how to do it.

there are many different types of install packages and package managers. but this is for Ubuntu, some companies use a binary file for you to compile in terminal* . these are,

1. '.run' files
2. '.sh' files
3. there s third one but i cant remember just now, sorry.

if you elevate your privilages you can install said programs/drivers,.. which just means..type 'sudo bash' and hit enter then put in your password. and hit enter then go to the file and go to properties>permissions>allow this program to be executed.

then drag it to terminal and it *should* compile, if i understand what the word compile means.. in other words it should install.

G2G Christmas dinner at a friends and i haven't even hit the shower yet.

Merry Christmas to you, and yours.








Dava






*(if im talking rubbish please correct me , im not a coder)
Edited by dava4444 - 12/25/11 at 6:20am
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post #2 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

there are many different types of install packages and package managers. but this is for Ubuntu, some companies use a binary file for you to compile in terminal* . these are,
1. '.run' files
2. '.sh' files
3. there s third one but i cant remember just now, sorry.

This bit is quite a way off.

First of all, file extensions are pretty meaningless in Linux as, unlike Windows, a program is defined by an executable permission (like how Windows has a hidden, archive and system permission, Linux also has an executable permission).

Going back to your list: .sh is not a binary file, it's a text file. sh files are just the Linux equivalent to Windows batch files (.BAT). The 'sh' bit refers to the shell that executes them, so you can get Bash files too. Linux will know how to execute these files because the first line in the code will point Linux to the shell that should execute them (if you open it up in a text editor, you'll see something like #!/bin/sh).

You'll also find a number of files with .pl, .py and .rb extensions too. These are pretty much thing (albeit rather than being shell scripts, they're language source code - Perl, Python and Ruby respectively - and will execute in exactly the same way as the shell scripts described above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

if you elevate your privilages you can install said programs/drivers,.. which just means..type 'sudo bash' and hit enter then put in your password. and hit enter then go to the file and go to properties>permissions>allow this program to be executed.
then drag it to terminal and it *should* compile, if i understand what the word compile means.. in other words it should install.
G2G Christmas dinner at a friends and i haven't even hit the shower yet.
Merry Christmas to you, and yours.
Dava
*(if im talking rubbish please correct me , im not a coder)

To be honest, I think that's pretty bad advice. Sorry.

Different programs will need to be installed in different ways and compiling is not the same thing as installing. Thus the best advice is to read the INSTALL and README file which should be included with pretty much every package you wish to manually install. They will have install instructions and it's best to follow them as usually it's not as simple as just executing a shell script. You will still need shell access, but as long as you can change directories in the Windows command prompt, you can do that in Linux too (ie cd /directory/name). So change directory to your installers directory and then follow those instructions outlined in INSTALL. If it looks as if the installer needs super user permissions, then prefix sudo to that command. (or do the sudo bash trick you highlighted before hand).

If you do need to compile your own package, then it's really not as simple as dragging and dropping an executable into the terminal window as it's usually a 3 stage process (./configure; make; make install). Though to be frank, I wouldn't recommend anyone compile from source unless they knew what they were doing because there's a lot of theory you need to know.

[edit]

Also, why are you installing Linux to FAT32? Is this a weird wubi specific thing because it's a dangerous practice to have (FAT32 doesn't have proper journalling et al, so corrupts very easily when compared to NTFS and ext3)
Edited by Plan9 - 12/25/11 at 10:32am
post #3 of 15
Very nice, biggrin.gif.
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post #4 of 15
I'm sorry, but Wubi in my opinion, is the biggest piece of crap ever. If i want to try it in linux, I'll put it in a VM. Everyone I've ever known that has used it, said it was cool, and then messed up the install, and ended up with a broken MBR. It's a good idea, that could be executed so, so much better.
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post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

This bit is quite a way off.
First of all, file extensions are pretty meaningless in Linux as, unlike Windows, a program is defined by an executable permission (like how Windows has a hidden, archive and system permission, Linux also has an executable permission).
Going back to your list: .sh is not a binary file, it's a text file. sh files are just the Linux equivalent to Windows batch files (.BAT). The 'sh' bit refers to the shell that executes them, so you can get Bash files too. Linux will know how to execute these files because the first line in the code will point Linux to the shell that should execute them (if you open it up in a text editor, you'll see something like #!/bin/sh).
You'll also find a number of files with .pl, .py and .rb extensions too. These are pretty much thing (albeit rather than being shell scripts, they're language source code - Perl, Python and Ruby respectively - and will execute in exactly the same way as the shell scripts described above).
To be honest, I think that's pretty bad advice. Sorry.
Different programs will need to be installed in different ways and compiling is not the same thing as installing. Thus the best advice is to read the INSTALL and README file which should be included with pretty much every package you wish to manually install. They will have install instructions and it's best to follow them as usually it's not as simple as just executing a shell script. You will still need shell access, but as long as you can change directories in the Windows command prompt, you can do that in Linux too (ie cd /directory/name). So change directory to your installers directory and then follow those instructions outlined in INSTALL. If it looks as if the installer needs super user permissions, then prefix sudo to that command. (or do the sudo bash trick you highlighted before hand).
If you do need to compile your own package, then it's really not as simple as dragging and dropping an executable into the terminal window as it's usually a 3 stage process (./configure; make; make install). Though to be frank, I wouldn't recommend anyone compile from source unless they knew what they were doing because there's a lot of theory you need to know.
[edit]
Also, why are you installing Linux to FAT32? Is this a weird wubi specific thing because it's a dangerous practice to have (FAT32 doesn't have proper journalling et al, so corrupts very easily when compared to NTFS and ext3)

I respect you... but

I have done this and it worked.

.sh files are script header files and yes are like batch files.

both can be run. batch can be run but not installed, I have installed via script header files in the past.

The things you have written to correct me.. are frankly a pain in the bum.. I prefer my way as it works for me with less hassle.
Yeah you're probably right, you're way is the 'correct' way to do it.. mine is the lazy, but to say I am completely wrong... sudo bash and .sh then dragging the file in has worked for me. I have even used .h files too.

Oh and FAT32 is used in Wubi regardless of NTFS, it's why it can't go over 32GB. you don't have a choice with Wubi it only does FAT32.


I am very tired as I have been up for almost 24 hours, ive had a busy day smile.gif

peace

Dava
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post #6 of 15
I have downloaded programs and the a lot of the READMEs warn against using the .sh included. It also not recommended to install anything apart from the package manager, because these become rogue files that can't be uninstalled with the package manager. Sometimes there's an UNINSTALL script that helps you uninstall it, but I don't think every one of them has it. It is really better to make your own .debs, that way you don't have to manage a bunch of messy directories to manage the software on your system.

This is just an example of how to do it. There might be a better way.
http://www.webupd8.org/2010/01/how-to-create-deb-package-ubuntu-debian.html

Also about Wubi, it is really a lot more work trying to manage and install Wubi than just writing an ubuntu.iso to a flash drive, repartition the drive, and install. It is also a lot faster, secure, and dependable. You can still access your Windows partition and transfer files between them easily. If you want to uninstall Wubi, you'll see that it isn't as simple as just running the uninstaller because it still leaves the entry in the bootloader. You'll also have an unlimited amount of space that is protected by a journal, so if the power goes out you don't lose all your data.
 
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post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

I respect you... but
I have done this and it worked.
There's a difference between doing a lazy kludge for personal use and advising others to perform the same kludge.
While I appreciate your method might work for you, it is absolutely the wrong way to do it and thus you really shouldn't be advising others of that method.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

.sh files are script header files and yes are like batch files.
They're not script header files, they're just sh shell script files. sh is nothing more than the shell that runs them. As I said before, you can get Bash, Csh, and so on, shell scripts too.
A header file is something altogether different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

both can be run. batch can be run but not installed, I have installed via script header files in the past.
You can install shell scripts, in fact a lot of programs sat on your computer will depend on installed shell scripts: eg all of the start up and shutdown processes (/etc/init.d/) are shell scripts. So without installed shell scripts, you wouldn't even be able to boot into a working desktop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

The things you have written to correct me.. are frankly a pain in the bum.. I prefer my way as it works for me with less hassle.
Installing a virus scanner on Windows is a pain in the bum. Using passwords is a pain in the bum. Sadly we all have to do things we don't want in order to run a stable and secure computer.
This is also why package managers exist, to take the pain away from installing applications (and on a distro like Ubuntu, there really shouldn't be much you need to manually install anyway).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

Yeah you're probably right, you're way is the 'correct' way to do it.. mine is the lazy, but to say I am completely wrong...
I'm sorry but you are. I've built a lot of packages over the years as part of my job and I can honestly say that generic shell scripts don't always work.

You also really shouldn't be advising people to blindly run downloaded shell scripts as root - in fact that alone is terrible advice even without taking the earlier points into account.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

sudo bash and .sh then dragging the file in has worked for me. I have even used .h files too.
I really doubt you have as .h is a C/++ header file and that wouldn't work without being compiled against a .c / .cpp source code. You definitely cannot execute a C header file in the shell. (as I stated above, shell scripts and header files are entirely different things).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

Oh and FAT32 is used in Wubi regardless of NTFS, it's why it can't go over 32GB. you don't have a choice with Wubi it only does FAT32.
In that case I'd avoid Wubi like the plague as it sounds like a terrible kludge.
Edited by Plan9 - 12/26/11 at 3:51am
post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothen View Post

I have downloaded programs and the a lot of the READMEs warn against using the .sh included. It also not recommended to install anything apart from the package manager, because these become rogue files that can't be uninstalled with the package manager. Sometimes there's an UNINSTALL script that helps you uninstall it, but I don't think every one of them has it. It is really better to make your own .debs, that way you don't have to manage a bunch of messy directories to manage the software on your system.
If it's compiled against MAKEFILEs then it usually can be uninstalled. But there's absolutely no reason why you'd want nor need to install anything from source on Ubuntu anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothen View Post

Also about Wubi, it is really a lot more work trying to manage and install Wubi than just writing an ubuntu.iso to a flash drive, repartition the drive, and install. It is also a lot faster, secure, and dependable. You can still access your Windows partition and transfer files between them easily. If you want to uninstall Wubi, you'll see that it isn't as simple as just running the uninstaller because it still leaves the entry in the bootloader. You'll also have an unlimited amount of space that is protected by a journal, so if the power goes out you don't lose all your data.

Yeah, the more i read about Wubi the more I'm convinced it's a terrible idea as people are expecting to run a long term OS on it.
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

There's a difference between doing a lazy kludge for personal use and advising others to perform the same kludge.
While I appreciate your method might work for you, it is absolutely the wrong way to do it and thus you really shouldn't be advising others of that method.
They're not script header files, they're just sh shell script files. sh is nothing more than the shell that runs them. As I said before, you can get Bash, Csh, and so on, shell scripts too.
A header file is something altogether different.
You can install shell scripts, in fact a lot of programs sat on your computer will depend on installed shell scripts: eg all of the start up and shutdown processes (/etc/init.d/) are shell scripts. So without installed shell scripts, you wouldn't even be able to boot into a working desktop.
Installing a virus scanner on Windows is a pain in the bum. Using passwords is a pain in the bum. Sadly we all have to do things we don't want in order to run a stable and secure computer.
This is also why package managers exist, to take the pain away from installing applications (and on a distro like Ubuntu, there really shouldn't be much you need to manually install anyway).
I'm sorry but you are. I've built a lot of packages over the years as part of my job and I can honestly say that generic shell scripts don't always work.
You also really shouldn't be advising people to blindly run downloaded shell scripts as root - in fact that alone is terrible advice even without taking the earlier points into account.
I really doubt you have as .h is a C/++ header file and that wouldn't work without being compiled against a .c / .cpp source code. You definitely cannot execute a C header file in the shell. (as I stated above, shell scripts and header files are entirely different things).
In that case I'd avoid Wubi like the plague as it sounds like a terrible kludge.

Okay.. you seemed to miss the sentiment in which this was written, if you had PM'd me and gave me the chance to hear you out i might have changed the OP. I just wanted to help.

but y'know I just feel like deleting this thread, if I get two 'aye' s from members I will delete it.

also, I'll say it, you sound like an expert.. but one who does not care for new users, and so are one of the long term problems with Linux. 'just learn code'.

I said about .debs in the OP but sometimes programs and drivers are just written for the kernel and not the distro ala~ Americas Army game. ala~ Realtek drivers.

but it's all gravy, i'm cool.

hope you had a good Christmas.

Dava
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post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dava4444 View Post

Okay.. you seemed to miss the sentiment in which this was written, if you had PM'd me and gave me the chance to hear you out i might have changed the OP. I just wanted to help.
but y'know I just feel like deleting this thread, if I get two 'aye' s from members I will delete it.
also, I'll say it, you sound like an expert.. but one who does not care for new users, and so are one of the long term problems with Linux. 'just learn code'.
I said about .debs in the OP but sometimes programs and drivers are just written for the kernel and not the distro ala~ Americas Army game. ala~ Realtek drivers.
but it's all gravy, i'm cool.
hope you had a good Christmas.
Dava

You were the one who asked to be corrected if you were wrong! rolleyes.gif

I actually have a lot of patience and time for the people who are less experienced than myself - particularly when it comes to Linux. If I have came across as arrogant at all then that will only be cause you asked to be corrected and then go one to tell me that your method was better even after I point out that it's wrong. There's several good reasons why your advice is bad and, upon your instructions, I pointed them out. So please don't make me out to be the bad guy here.

IF you're getting funny because you hate to be seen as being wrong (I'm not saying that is the case, but I know plenty of people who would be motivated that way), then please don't delete this thread out of pride as the comments left her maybe of use for some people. However if you're requesting it deleted because you're worried that I'm out to troll then I promise you I'm really not smile.gif

And for the record, I am actually quite offended by your last post. Rest assured I won't bother helping you next time you b0rk your install.
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