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[Official] Samsung SSD750/830/840/850 Owners Club - Page 13

post #121 of 5731
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I have the Samsung Magician software installed and there is a feature called over provisioning that creates an unallocated partition for swap space. They recommend 7%-10% of the total drive volume and state the drive will last longer and perform better when the space is available for trim and garbage collection. I read the Intel 520 ssd is preset for 7% for this function so it seems both companies see benefits in overprovisioning. Any thoughts on this topic?
post #122 of 5731
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobni View Post


I have the Samsung Magician software installed and there is a feature called over provisioning that creates an unallocated partition for swap space. They recommend 7%-10% of the total drive volume and state the drive will last longer and perform better when the space is available for trim and garbage collection. I read the Intel 520 ssd is preset for 7% for this function so it seems both companies see benefits in overprovisioning. Any thoughts on this topic?

It is pointless is to do it your self.
post #123 of 5731
Sean thanks for the optimization guide, this being my first ssd it was invaluable and very much appreciated , Rep+. I still have tweaks I can do but am now useing your guide to learn and study features and capabilities of windows 7 in relation to ssd. The over provisioning subject and my comprehension on use for the 830 ssd is mostly based on what I read as opposed to any personal experience or knowledge. So I don't fully understand the concept but here are the sources that are possibly leading me astray.

700
Edited by bobni - 2/16/12 at 10:19am
post #124 of 5731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

It is pointless is to do it your self.

What does this mean "It is pointless is to do it your self." ?
post #125 of 5731
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobni View Post

Sean thanks for the optimization guide, this being my first ssd it was invaluable and very much appreciated , Rep+. I still have tweaks I can do but am now useing your guide to learn and study features and capabilities of windows 7 in relation to ssd. The over provisioning subject and my comprehension on use for the 830 ssd is mostly based on what I read as opposed to any personal experience or knowledge. So I don't fully understand the concept but here are the sources that are possibly leading me astray.
Honestly you shouldn't bother. In theory over-provisioning allows a bit of extra leeway for when the drive becomes full, so that performance is less likely to degrade at that point, as well as giving wear-leveling a bit of extra space to work with so the drive will wear out slower.

In reality this doesn't matter outside of maybe an enterprise environment. Space is already at a premium on SSDs so it's not worth leaving unpartitioned space. Just keep in mind that if you fill the SSD nearly to the brim the write performance may drop a bit. The wear-leveling also won't matter, as it's been shown that SSDs require hundreds of terabytes written to burn out, so there's no chance of that happening from regular use.
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post #126 of 5731
Thanks for the helpfull answer Xeio. When samsung talks about the over-provisioning space they state it is swap space . Do they mean swap space in the sence like a harddrive would be used when you run out of available ram? Reading the info they state the swap space is used to provide trim and garbage collection in the background at idle time. So without the over-provisioning swap space will the drive utilize any free space to perform these tasks and would that be less efficient then utilizeing a specific dedicated swap space? Then the swap space serves no usefull purpose unless the drive is close to capacity in which case a swap space is helpfull? Anand tech mentioned the samsung 830 performs trim and garbage collection only during idle time while most ssd brands had an active system to perform these functions on the fly. Intel has over-provisioning preset and locked at 7% on the 520 model while Samsung and others have none. Even though there are limited controllers each ssd manufacturer has different firmware. Even though all ssd drives are very similar I wonder how these differences come into play during optimization.
post #127 of 5731
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobni View Post

Thanks for the helpfull answer Xeio. When samsung talks about the over-provisioning space they state it is swap space . Do they mean swap space in the sence like a harddrive would be used when you run out of available ram? Reading the info they state the swap space is used to provide trim and garbage collection in the background at idle time. So without the over-provisioning swap space will the drive utilize any free space to perform these tasks and would that be less efficient then utilizeing a specific dedicated swap space? Then the swap space serves no usefull purpose unless the drive is close to capacity in which case a swap space is helpfull? Anand tech mentioned the samsung 830 performs trim and garbage collection only during idle time while most ssd brands had an active system to perform these functions on the fly. Intel has over-provisioning preset and locked at 7% on the 520 model while Samsung and others have none. Even though there are limited controllers each ssd manufacturer has different firmware. Even though all ssd drives are very similar I wonder how these differences come into play during optimization.

Samsung does idle time garbage collection and trim even when using all the space available, when allocating all of the disk. It's just that the controller(from what I've read)likes it best when some space is left unpartitioned(or overprovisioned, whatever word you want:just a space that isn't allocated or accesible to the OS itself). That way, when moving files for GC or TRIM, the drive allocates them in the unpartitioned space evenly(wear-leveling equally each NAND cell), and then proceeds to do GC or TRIM. I´ve also read(from Samsung 470 spec sheets, nor form any Samsung 830 document)that when some space it's over-provisioned, the GC and TRIM don't have to wait for an idle idle IDLE state to start. From experience, my Samsung it's always at tip top performance even after some heavy writing, just a few MB below the advertised specs.

As Xeio has said, wear leveling doesn't matter much, your drive will probably be still a top performer when a new technology(improbably) or a new SATA spec comes. If I recall correctly, the Samsung 830 64gb is just above the 500TiB in the torture test at Xtremesystems(currently down for retention test in a few weeks), and just for your information, it has been, despite some problems with the test machine itself, not with the drive, the quickest drive to date.
    
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post #128 of 5731
Thank you Nonehxc for the information. If it is correct that when some space it's over-provisioned, the GC and TRIM don't have to wait for an IDLE state to start, that in itself is a valid reason to over-provision. Since I have plenty of free space on the 830 ssd and Intel and samsung recommend it , I'll stay with over-provisioning. So far very happy with the 830 .
post #129 of 5731
You'll find it awesome. I don't know if it's your first SSD or not. For me, it's my first SSD, and wow, what a change. Enjoy having the best consumer SSD out there, and don't listen to the Crucial M4 fangirls at overclock. Apart from Sean Webster and a few more reliable-interesting posters or moderators, this forum is just a Crucial spam page. Tons of e-peen boasting over a few MB on a crappy AS SSD benchmark without any solid base.
    
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post #130 of 5731
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonehxc View Post

You'll find it awesome. I don't know if it's your first SSD or not. For me, it's my first SSD, and wow, what a change. Enjoy having the best consumer SSD out there, and don't listen to the Crucial M4 fangirls at overclock. Apart from Sean Webster and a few more reliable-interesting posters or moderators, this forum is just a Crucial spam page. Tons of e-peen boasting over a few MB on a crappy AS SSD benchmark without any solid base.

Heh, that's part of why I started the club. The series had been out for about 2 months already and there wasn't a club to give it a little boost, so I figured I could do it. tongue.gif It's exactly as I said in the first post:
Quote:
I will, however, give my input about this drive as follows; it's the PERFECT alternative to the oversaturation of Marvell and Sandforce drives on the market, it does a very good job competing with them on a price/performance ratio standpoint (even if 4k random performance isn't as impressive). Not only that, but it does so with a reliability track record only matched/beaten by Intel. An important note is Samsung's SSD Magician software, which comes with the 830s, and allows a lot of control over the drive, even how much space is overprovisioned.

Sean has said a couple times now that you won't notice the difference in day to day use between this and a Marvell/Sandforce drive, and to get what's the best deal. Well, the 830 might not be the best deal, but I will maintain it's the best drive and it IS worth that extra 10-20 bucks, especially if you don't care about those relatively small differences shown in the benchmark programs. wink.gif

Edit; on the note of overprovisioning, I had thought Samsung automatically sets aside 7% of the drive's space so you don't have to, and that it's a small bonus to have control over it (not that you really need that, of course).

Edit 2; bobni added to the list. smile.gif
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