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post #1541 of 5733
What is the recommended firmware that I should be running on the 256GB 840 Pro? The latest and greatest ok or is there an older version that is recommended? Anything in particular that I should be wary of doing like secure wiping?
   
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post #1542 of 5733
2x 250gig Samsung 840 in Raid 0 Latest Intel Drivers and OROM

post #1543 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

It doesn't need to be able to reach 1PiB. There are plenty of 120-128GB SSDs with MLC NAND that won't hit anywhere near 1PiB. As long as the Samsung 840 120GB can do 120TB (which means it meets Samsung's promise of 1,000 P/E cycles minimum), it's good. I used 50GB host writes setting up a new PC with Windows 7. At that level of usage per day, the 120TB minimum NAND writes will be used up, in what, 6.5 years? Most folks only write an average of around 5GB, at most 10GB to their SSDs per day. At 10GB/day, you'll use up the 120TB NAND writes in 30+ years. rolleyes.gif
There are plenty of TLC NAND manufacturers. The problem appears to be none have quite the same expertise as Samsung when it comes to controllers and firmware. Samsung really did something pretty amazing with Samsung 840 TLC. The only unfortunate thing about it is pricing.
The Samsung 840 tends to be more expensive compared to previous gen models with MLC NAND, particularly the Samsung 830 during all those clearance sales. The move to TLC NAND is designed to drive down prices. Unfortunately, prices were already down when the Samsung 840 was released. You see sales on previous gen 120GB MLC NAND SSD for $50-80 quite often, but the cheapest I've seen for the Samsung 840 120GB is $80 ($70 after $40MIR). Normally, it goes for around $100 or so. I've seen the Intel 330 and SanDisk Extreme 240GB for $140 on a couple of occasions but the lowest I've seen for the Samsung 840 250GB is $150. However, there have been some pretty good deals on the Samsung 840 500GB (B&H $300, Adorama $310).
Also, the fixed costs (packaging, chassis, PCB, controller, RAM, etc) for all the capacities should be the same so shouldn't the higher capacity models be cheaper per GB compared to the lower capacity ones? Why do 480/500/512GB capacity models often cost significantly more per GB compared to 240/250/256GB versions?

You are talking about special deals, not average or normal price. In China the 830's are skyrocketing in price, the 128's are already 1.5x the price of 840's. Only OEM ones can be bought for the same price as 840's but I would advise against them as their firmware can't be updated and Samsung's Magician doesn't recognise them as valid Samsung SSD's.

When I bought my 840 two weeks ago I bought it for 565 RMB, they are down to 525 already. The 250GB ones have dropped from 1100 to 950. By Summer there will be killer deals I hope!
Quote:
Samsung 840 Day 47

Drive Hours: 1116
ASU GiB Written: 403,139.61 (393.69 TiB)
Avg MB/s: 101.97 (449.63 hours)
MD5: OK

Wear Leveling Count (B1): 3232 raw (1 normalized)

Reallocated blocks (B3,05): 12 (99 normalized)
Failure count (B5, B6): 0 program, 0 erase
Uncorrectable Error Count: 0
ECC Error Rate (C3): 0

Looks like the wear is starting to show. Looks like the drive is retiring blocks without being an explicit erase or program failure (possibly excessive raw BER from worn cells). Will be interesting how much wear it can take.

However, it seems to have beat the Vertex 4 at endurance testing.

These 840's seem to have close to 3000 P/E cycles. I read somewhere a while ago that Samsung had boasted that their TLC chips had the endurance of MLC ones (can't find the link, claim may have been removed or I misread) and it seems to be correct. What I find interesting is how the drive is reassigning blocks without them actually being defect. However, 12 reallocated blocks at 400 TiB means they will easily last the PiB I am hoping for, meaning my drive will last me at least a decade even with the 24-30GB I write to it per day (average of 1GB/hour).

Edit: the 830 is, indeed, dead. I mistakenly thought there was a second one running but it seems I'm wrong.
Edited by Liranan - 1/2/13 at 9:28pm
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post #1544 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazog View Post

2x 250gig Samsung 840 in Raid 0 Latest Intel Drivers and OROM

Does TRIM work in RAID also is it correct RAID provides no real benefit?
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post #1545 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rui-no-onna View Post

It doesn't need to be able to reach 1PiB. There are plenty of 120-128GB SSDs with MLC NAND that won't hit anywhere near 1PiB. As long as the Samsung 840 120GB can do 120TB (which means it meets Samsung's promise of 1,000 P/E cycles minimum), it's good. I used 50GB host writes setting up a new PC with Windows 7. At that level of usage per day, the 120TB minimum NAND writes will be used up, in what, 6.5 years? Most folks only write an average of around 5GB, at most 10GB to their SSDs per day. At 10GB/day, you'll use up the 120TB NAND writes in 30+ years. rolleyes.gif
There are plenty of TLC NAND manufacturers. The problem appears to be none have quite the same expertise as Samsung when it comes to controllers and firmware. Samsung really did something pretty amazing with Samsung 840 TLC. The only unfortunate thing about it is pricing.
The Samsung 840 tends to be more expensive compared to previous gen models with MLC NAND, particularly the Samsung 830 during all those clearance sales. The move to TLC NAND is designed to drive down prices. Unfortunately, prices were already down when the Samsung 840 was released. You see sales on previous gen 120GB MLC NAND SSD for $50-80 quite often, but the cheapest I've seen for the Samsung 840 120GB is $80 ($70 after $40MIR). Normally, it goes for around $100 or so. I've seen the Intel 330 and SanDisk Extreme 240GB for $140 on a couple of occasions but the lowest I've seen for the Samsung 840 250GB is $150. However, there have been some pretty good deals on the Samsung 840 500GB (B&H $300, Adorama $310).
Also, the fixed costs (packaging, chassis, PCB, controller, RAM, etc) for all the capacities should be the same so shouldn't the higher capacity models be cheaper per GB compared to the lower capacity ones? Why do 480/500/512GB capacity models often cost significantly more per GB compared to 240/250/256GB versions?

You are talking about special deals, not average or normal price. In China the 830's are skyrocketing in price, the 128's are already 1.5x the price of 840's. Only OEM ones can be bought for the same price as 840's but I would advise against them as their firmware can't be updated and Samsung's Magician doesn't recognise them as valid Samsung SSD's.

When I bought my 840 two weeks ago I bought it for 565 RMB, they are down to 525 already. The 250GB ones have dropped from 1100 to 950. By Summer there will be killer deals I hope!
Quote:
Samsung 840 Day 47

Drive Hours: 1116
ASU GiB Written: 403,139.61 (393.69 TiB)
Avg MB/s: 101.97 (449.63 hours)
MD5: OK

Wear Leveling Count (B1): 3232 raw (1 normalized)

Reallocated blocks (B3,05): 12 (99 normalized)
Failure count (B5, B6): 0 program, 0 erase
Uncorrectable Error Count: 0
ECC Error Rate (C3): 0

Looks like the wear is starting to show. Looks like the drive is retiring blocks without being an explicit erase or program failure (possibly excessive raw BER from worn cells). Will be interesting how much wear it can take.

However, it seems to have beat the Vertex 4 at endurance testing.

These 840's seem to have close to 3000 P/E cycles. I read somewhere a while ago that Samsung had boasted that their TLC chips had the endurance of MLC ones (can't find the link, claim may have been removed or I misread) and it seems to be correct. What I find interesting is how the drive is reassigning blocks without them actually being defect.

Edit: the 830 is, indeed, dead. I mistakenly thought there was a second one running but it seems I'm wrong.
I remember reading the Samsung TLC is supposed to be longer lasting than or the same as competitive MLC as well...maybe it was anandtech?
Quote:
However, 12 reallocated blocks at 400 TiB means they will easily last the PiB I am hoping for, meaning my drive will last me at least a decade even with the 24-30GB I write to it per day (average of 1GB/hour).
You realize at that rate of about 1GB/hr that you will only write 86TB in a decade? lol

ATM it is at 400TB. That is more than 45 yrs of write life at your usage lol. applaud.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazog View Post

2x 250gig Samsung 840 in Raid 0 Latest Intel Drivers and OROM

Does TRIM work in RAID also is it correct RAID provides no real benefit?
TRIM in RAID 0 depends on the OROM and/or driver. If you have a 7 series chipset you will be able to easily get TRIM in RAID 0 with no mods or hacks.
post #1546 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

I remember reading the Samsung TLC is supposed to be longer lasting than or the same as competitive MLC as well...maybe it was anandtech?

For the life of me I can't remember where I read it but I remember distinctly it was some review that made the claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

You realize at that rate of about 1GB/hr that you will only write 86TB in a decade? lol
ATM it is at 400TB. That is more than 45 yrs of write life at your usage lol. applaud.gif

BRB, increasing writes to my SSD by about a factor of 10 biggrin.gif

Actually, going to put some more games on it to test because I don't really notice an increase in load in Skyrim. Maybe Witcher 2 will be better, if not I will test Max Payne 3 and the Win 8 and Mint VM I have lying around.

To be honest I thought I was writing a little too much to the drive for it to last this long and I calculated myself, with an average of 1GB/hour that the drive would last 10 years but I thought I'd made a mistake, with some stating it would last 5. Now I can happily ignore the writes as this thing can become a family heirloom.

Anyone who has an 830 or 840 Pro should keep theirs and pass it down. Though in 50 years they'll think we were in the dark ages of computing lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Webster View Post

TRIM in RAID 0 depends on the OROM and/or driver. If you have a 7 series chipset you will be able to easily get TRIM in RAID 0 with no mods or hacks.

The only Intel system I have is an E8400 and a G41 board that is driving me mad due to it being a low powered board and it not providing enough power for all USB devices (external HD's simply don't work). My beloved system is this 990FX board.
Edited by Liranan - 1/3/13 at 2:20am
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post #1547 of 5733
I just wanted to show anyone considering moving from a HDD to a SSD and by how much of a performance difference there will be, here is my WD Raptor HDD vs my Samsung 830 SSD benchmarks. It took about one hour to benchmark my Raptor HDD!




post #1548 of 5733
hi everyone i need some help. i have a Samsung 830 256gb ssd. i ve bought it from ebay since march 2012. and it is OEM SSD. the firmware is CXM02D1Q and i have some issues like not responding after windows start. i did plug of and clean+reinstall all windows in this SSD. but it happens again. and i read the reason of this problem is about firmware(FW). now i want to update the FW but samsung magician doesnt see my SSD as Samsung SSD. it says ''not a supported Samsung SSD''. so what do i have to update this FW?




Edited by drserk - 1/3/13 at 9:16am
post #1549 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by drserk View Post

hi everyone i need some help. i have a Samsung 830 256gb ssd. i ve bought it from ebay since march 2012. and it is OEM SSD. the firmware is CXM02D1Q and i have some issues like not responding after windows start. i did plug of and clean+reinstall all windows in this SSD. but it happens again. and i read the reason of this problem is about firmware(FW). now i want to update the FW but samsung magician doesnt see my SSD as Samsung SSD. it says ''not a supported Samsung SSD''. so what do i have to update this FW?

I bought an 830 128GB OEM SSD too a while ago and returned it because the FW couldn't be upgraded, now I'm happy I did.

Your only possible option is to email Samsung and ask them whether there is an updated FW for your SSD. If not you are out of luck and you can try to sell it, if at all possible, and replace it with an 840.

Link to the thread I made on the OEM 830 I got:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1339755/problem-with-my-new-830-128-and-magician#post_18858345
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post #1550 of 5733
I just got around to installing my 840pro(a single screw is holding it into a 3.5in bay for now I forgot about getting a adapter but it's pretty secure actually) Only problem is, I enabled AHCI mode, but then when booting it said no devices detected, went into windows loading, then crashed, returned to some boot menu thing listing the devices but then saying the same thing, no devices detected. I remember having issues enabling AHCI on my mobo previously when I first built the computer and just dealt with the HDD being in IDE mode the whole time assuming Win7 handled turning it into an actual SATA device somehow as I read somewhere. But I was told I should set the bios to AHCI for the SSD?

I'm planning on installing Windows separately on the SSD now, I just set it up as a secondary drive quick to run samsung magician on it to set up overprovisioning and update the firmware. Want to leave my current HDD in tact for a while incase something goes wrong for at least a few weeks to test it. But I'm wondering if I should try to figure out how to get AHCI working or is it not worth it? I ran the benchmark thing quick on both the SSD and my HDD with IDE mode, HDD came out to random read/write 32/35, SSD was like 270/230, which from what I've been seeing seems right for my drive on SATA 2 speeds. Still 8 times faster than the HDD obviously, but the HDD seemed even slower than I thought it'd be.

Basically I'm asking is it worth it to figure out getting AHCI working? My bios are kind of annoying and confusing, both the HDD and SSD came up as slave drives for some reason, though the manual said nothing about the ports they're being hooked into being anything like that, my DVD drive was the master to my HDD.
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