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[Official] Samsung SSD750/830/840/850 Owners Club - Page 166

post #1651 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

Don't turn it off. it won't make a difference to your performance and you run more of a risk of a corrupted system if your power fails or your machine crashes.

With it unchecked, windows will flush data from memory to disk at critical time where a loss of power or a crash could leave the system in an inconsistent if not all data for a critical transaction was updated to disk.

The performance improvement is not universal (some drives do not seem to like it for whatever reason), but it does usually apply to both SSDs and HDDs. HDDs are just at higher risk for data loss as they tend to be slower at writing their cache information to the drive and require more power when in operation, thus are less likely to finish writing everything to disk when there is a power failure. Many SSDs have enough power stored in their capacitors for the half second or so it takes to flush the buffer, most rotating platter drives do not. There is still some element of risk on most SSDs, but some (especially enterprise models) have a supercap specifically meant to power the drive long enough for a complete flush. Most consumer level drives do not have such a feature. In the end its about the level of risk you are willing to accept. Turning off buffer flushing on an HDD is moderately risky. On a normal SSD it's low risk (much faster random wirtes get data off the cache onto the NAND fast). On an enterprise SSD it's virtually no risk (supercapacitor gives these drives even more time to write data).

-Sean Webster
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post #1652 of 5733
You need to have 1200 in AS-ssd .Your 4k are low,install Intel rst 11.2. disable c-states for testing and it seems that your write cache is disable in IRST-
post #1653 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

With it unchecked, windows will flush data from memory to disk at critical time

Just to add that IIRC RAID0 doesn't support windows flush using RST drivers, I haven't check in quite a while though. Not that the OP is using RAID0 but some others might be.
post #1654 of 5733
Sorry guys, I'm not trying to start something but I have to say that my 128gb Crucial M4 is noticeably faster, than 128gb Ssamsung 840 Pro.

Both are on the same comp Sata3 port. Both have fresh Win 8.

The M4 feels snappier/smoother/less lag. It is noticeable.wink.gif

However benchmarks says that the 840 is better so IDK!
post #1655 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrit View Post

The performance improvement is not universal (some drives do not seem to like it for whatever reason), but it does usually apply to both SSDs and HDDs. HDDs are just at higher risk for data loss as they tend to be slower at writing their cache information to the drive and require more power when in operation, thus are less likely to finish writing everything to disk when there is a power failure. Many SSDs have enough power stored in their capacitors for the half second or so it takes to flush the buffer, most rotating platter drives do not. There is still some element of risk on most SSDs, but some (especially enterprise models) have a supercap specifically meant to power the drive long enough for a complete flush. Most consumer level drives do not have such a feature. In the end its about the level of risk you are willing to accept. Turning off buffer flushing on an HDD is moderately risky. On a normal SSD it's low risk (much faster random wirtes get data off the cache onto the NAND fast). On an enterprise SSD it's virtually no risk (supercapacitor gives these drives even more time to write data).

-Sean Webster

I don't get the logic. The whole reason for an on device buffer is it is faster than than writing to the drive. Since the buffer is faster than either writing critical data to an SSD or HDD, there will usually be something in it if you are writing to the drive. SSD doesn't have less chance of having data in the buffer on a power outage than a HDD - at least not much depending on the load.

I may be wrong about this, but I get the impression that the issue is transactional in nature- when the OS does a write and flush so it knows the data is on disk when the flush completes. There is very little information available on this that I could ever find. I don't know for certain if this is what the OS does or whether this but I believe it does.

The only consumer grade SSD I know that has capacitors is the Intel 320.

In any case, you can try disabling it and run AS-SSD or whatever and you won't see a difference so why take a risk?
Edited by GeneO - 1/25/13 at 8:53pm
post #1656 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by windowszp View Post

Sorry guys, I'm not trying to start something but I have to say that my 128gb Crucial M4 is noticeably faster, than 128gb Ssamsung 840 Pro.

Both are on the same comp Sata3 port. Both have fresh Win 8.

The M4 feels snappier/smoother/less lag. It is noticeable.wink.gif

However benchmarks says that the 840 is better so IDK!

It is a mixed bag for me. The 840 does seem snappier - I don't see any lag in most things but when I did have many things going on at once a couple of times, the system seemed a little less responsive - but I am not sure I can pin that on the SSD.. I prefer the 840. overall
post #1657 of 5733
Hi,

SSD newbie here.

Picked up my first SSD today, the Samsung 840 pro (256 GB).

Popped it in with my other hard drive, installed Windows, a bunch of drivers and some programs. Then I start benchmarking.

Theres not much running in the background as I restart before benches aside from drivers. Its not freshly formatted clean but its fairly unpopulated.



This is the absolute best I can get out of about 10 benches. Other results are within about 5-10% of that. Each time I tried something different; installed new drivers of various sorts, tinkered with my BIOS, messed around with over provisioning, testing with new and old versions of AS SSD. Samsung Magician corroborates these results; I can't pass the 400 barrier. Unless I should RMA? I almost feel like swapping to a different SATA 3 port and try a different SATA 3 cable.

I'm definitely using a SATA 3 port and not SATA 2. My cable also says SATA 3, 6 gigabits/s for what its worth. That should be good for 750mb/s, correct?

Additional details: When trying to install any version of Intel RST, I get an error that says "This computer does not meet the minimum requirements for this software." Some other intel drivers give me similar issues, while a few work just fine. I don't understand.

Things I haven't tried:

- physically switching to another sata port and another sata cable
- flashing mobo bios to latest (ugh)
- installing RST and a few other intel utilities. My chipset drivers *seem* to work, but a lot of other intel drivers just give me errors when I try to execute them, even if under admin.


Also a few more questions:

Is benchmarking an SSD bad for its life? I heard theres a limited amount of writes I can make for an SSD. Hows it like for the Samsung pro?

What else should I know about SSDs? I'm a total beginner when it comes to this.

Up to date system in my sig, thanks in advance.
Edited by Kanashimu - 1/26/13 at 4:31am
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post #1658 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

In any case, you can try disabling it and run AS-SSD or whatever and you won't see a difference so why take a risk?

I saw an increase in performance after disabling the buffer.
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post #1659 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanashimu View Post

Hi,

SSD newbie here.

Picked up my first SSD today, the Samsung 840 pro (256 GB).

Popped it in with my other hard drive, installed Windows, a bunch of drivers and some programs. Then I start benchmarking.

Theres not much running in the background as I restart before benches aside from drivers. Its not freshly formatted clean but its fairly unpopulated.



This is the absolute best I can get out of about 10 benches. Other results are within about 5-10% of that. Each time I tried something different; installed new drivers of various sorts, tinkered with my BIOS, messed around with over provisioning, testing with new and old versions of AS SSD. Samsung Magician corroborates these results; I can't pass the 400 barrier. Unless I should RMA? I almost feel like swapping to a different SATA 3 port and try a different SATA 3 cable.

I'm definitely using a SATA 3 port and not SATA 2. My cable also says SATA 3, 6 gigabits/s for what its worth. That should be good for 750mb/s, correct?

Additional details: When trying to install any version of Intel RST, I get an error that says "This computer does not meet the minimum requirements for this software." Some other intel drivers give me similar issues, while a few work just fine. I don't understand.

Things I haven't tried:

- physically switching to another sata port and another sata cable
- flashing mobo bios to latest (ugh)
- installing RST and a few other intel utilities. My chipset drivers *seem* to work, but a lot of other intel drivers just give me errors when I try to execute them, even if under admin.


Also a few more questions:

Is benchmarking an SSD bad for its life? I heard theres a limited amount of writes I can make for an SSD. Hows it like for the Samsung pro?

What else should I know about SSDs? I'm a total beginner when it comes to this.

Up to date system in my sig, thanks in advance.

The SSD is in IDE mode, not SATA (AHCI). Read the following link to switch from IDE to AHCI:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1227636/how-to-change-sata-modes-after-windows-7-installation

Once you've switched run benchmarks again and you will see the drive in all its glory.

Your drive will last you decades, there's no need to fear that benchmarking it will kill it. Samsung's 830's can write up to 8x more than Samsung's estimates (my cheap SSD can write 3-4x Samsung's estimates). Their estimates are based on safe predictions, not actual life span, your drive will last so long your great grand children will still be using it before it's dead.

Here is a link explaining it to you:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?271063-SSD-Write-Endurance-25nm-Vs-34nm/page218

As you can see the 830 256 managed to write 6500 TiB (almost 7000 Terrabytes) before it died and it didn't die because it had exhausted its P/E or chips but because the tester was moving house after which the drive simply wouldn't start up again. He believes the drive would have worked for quite a while to come had he not had to turn his PC off.

From what I understand either the 840 Pro uses equal quality MLC chips or better ones than the 830's did. You have nothing to fear from benchmarking that drive hundreds of times, it will outlast you, your kids and your grand kids.
Edited by Liranan - 1/26/13 at 8:55am
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post #1660 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

I saw an increase in performance after disabling the buffer.

Well that is interesting. Can you post a before and after snd how you measured performance?

I see the same performance.

BTW the 840 uses toggle NAND, which has a bit better performance than the NAND in the 830.
EDIT: I take that back. I guess the 830 used toggle NAND as well, the 840 uses the faster toggle DDR 2.0.
Edited by GeneO - 1/26/13 at 8:58am
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