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[Official] Samsung SSD750/830/840/850 Owners Club - Page 334

post #3331 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remix65 View Post

most if not all users who are after performance are done with those products after one or 2 generations.

looking at your hardware there's a high chance you'll hang on your hardware for a while but i'll give you 4 years tops lol. you'll probably use it on a laptop but not main desktop. if we're still on desktops that is.

I have no issues upgrading CPU/Motherboards/RAM, etc. But I don't consider a HDD/SSD something that needs to be upgraded every few years. It should ideally last 6-8 years. And all my hard drives have so far. This is why I worry about endurance and such.
post #3332 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

I have no issues upgrading CPU/Motherboards/RAM, etc. But I don't consider a HDD/SSD something that needs to be upgraded every few years. It should ideally last 6-8 years. And all my hard drives have so far. This is why I worry about endurance and such.

That's bad logic. Its like using IDE HDD with adapter now, if we take into account your way of thinking.
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post #3333 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

Chances are, I will. My mechanical drive is actually 6 six years old. If I can get six years ( chances are very high that I can ) out of this drive, I'll be more than happy.

I'd like to see you try to write 300 TB on a SSD in your 6-8 years, as it took that much write to finally break down the 840's TLC NAND and cause errors.The same SSD was performing just fine at 200TB.

With most of the consumer SSD users here and elsewhere writing at most 5-10TB a year on their SSDs, all this SSD durability talk is fear mongering and nothing more as they will last for a decadse or more before ever wearing out due to exhaustion of write endurance.
Edited by sherlock - 11/29/13 at 3:04pm
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post #3334 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyside View Post

That's bad logic. Its like using IDE HDD with adapter now, if we take into account your way of thinking.

Not really. Standards like SATA have been around for years, and they'll still be around in the near future. Even if Sata express becomes mainstream ( which it'll take a while for ), in a few years, like 3-7 years, it still won't make much sense to upgrade to the absolute latest unless you're starting with a brand new system. At this point, with SSDs reaching speeds of 800MB/s, it's just those 4k random reading and writing speeds that would make a huge difference to the end user.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

I'd like to see you try to write 300 TB on a SSD in your 6-8 years, as it took that much write to finally break down the 840's TLC NAND and cause errors.The same SSD was performing just fine at 200TB.

With most of the consumer SSD users here and elsewhere writing at most 5-10TB a year on their SSDs, all this SSD durability talk is fear mongering and nothing more as they will last for a decadse or more before ever wearing out due to exhaustion of write endurance.

I think you missed an elemental bit of my post. I was referring to retaining my drive for a sustained period of time. Also, please see the part in bold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

Chances are, I will. My mechanical drive is actually 6 six years old. If I can get six years ( chances are very high that I can ) out of this drive, I'll be more than happy.

Also, I have an 120GB 840 Evo (lesser endurance than the bigger drives), not the regular 830/840 in their 250GB+ capacities. I've only seen one site which was actively testing the endurance till about 2 months ago, and there hasn't been an update after 78TiB.
post #3335 of 5733
Did you guys see or look at the picture I posted on the previous page?



I really am still baffled as to why people are so worried about endurance and longevity, it just amazes me that people think they are going to wear out their SSD in a few years when in fact it will last them decades longer than they can even imagine.
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post #3336 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

A question I've had for a while is whether there's a difference in performance between the capacities. Do programs and Windows start faster on the 250 compared with the 120 or are they about the same?

With more NAND chips there is generally more parallelism so higher capacity drives are in general faster than their lower capacity siblings. However you probably won't notice the performance difference in practice.
post #3337 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post


I think you missed an elemental bit of my post. I was referring to retaining my drive for a sustained period of time. Also, please see the part in bold.
Also, I have an 120GB 840 Evo (lesser endurance than the bigger drives), not the regular 830/840 in their 250GB+ capacities. I've only seen one site which was actively testing the endurance till about 2 months ago, and there hasn't been an update after 78TiB.

You are concerned about whether your 120GB 840 Evo could last 6 years(your "sustained period of time", I did mention most drives last "decades" on normal write usage ), and you dismissed the 250GB+ test results when they can easily be used to extrapolate the result for a 120GB(divide by 2 or 4 based on size differences if it is the same/similar models).

The 78 TiB test result(even if that is the upper limit) would mean the drive would last at least 7.8 years even if you write 10TiB a year on it(again, I'd like to see you try to write that much in a year)

If you are still concerned, here is a analysis by Anandtech based on the 1129 P/E cycle Estimated of 840 Evo's TLC NAND.


50GiB a day = 17.8TB written a year, in that case the 120GB 840 Evo will last 7.91 years for a total of 141+ TB written, for a mildly more realistic 7 TB written per year(I am on pace to write less than 5 TB on this 840 Pro of mine this year) your 840 Evo will last 20.15 years. That should be enough to assure you that your 840Evo's TLC NAND will not stop you from retaining your drive for 6-8 years as you wished.
Edited by sherlock - 11/29/13 at 8:42pm
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post #3338 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

You are concerned about whether your 120GB 840 Evo could last 6 years(your "sustained period of time", I did mention most drives last "decades" on normal write usage ), and you dismissed the 250GB+ test results when they can easily be used to extrapolate the result for a 120GB(divide by 2 or 4 based on size differences if it is the same/similar models).

The 78 TiB test result(even if that is the upper limit) would mean the drive would last at least 7.8 years even if you write 10TiB a year on it(again, I'd like to see you try to write that much in a year)

If you are still concerned, here is a analysis by Anandtech based on the 1129 P/E cycle Estimated of 840 Evo's TLC NAND.


50GiB a day = 17.8TB written a year, in that case the 120GB 840 Evo will last 7.91 years for a total of 141+ TB written, for a mildly more realistic 7 TB written per year(I am on pace to write less than 5 TB on this 840 Pro of mine this year) your 840 Evo will last 20.15 years. That should be enough to assure you that your 840Evo's TLC NAND will not stop you from retaining your drive for 6-8 years as you wished.

I wasn't concerned, like I mentioned quite a few pages ago, but since people have a hard time reading, I have to reiterate. Same thing with the AT article. It also uses a write amplification of 1x, versus a realistic WA of 4-4.5x for this drive, which is mentioned in the article somewhere.

----
Guys, I did my fair bit of research on the drive before I got it. If I was that worried, I would've gone with the MLC 840 Pro instead. So instead of trying to create an argument based on a fraction of a post that I made, please read my post in full and my posts before and after, at least those with pertain to the same things.
post #3339 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

I wasn't concerned, like I mentioned quite a few pages ago, but since people have a hard time reading, I have to reiterate. Same thing with the AT article. It also uses a write amplification of 1x, versus a realistic WA of 4-4.5x for this drive, which is mentioned in the article somewhere.

----
Guys, I did my fair bit of research on the drive before I got it. If I was that worried, I would've gone with the MLC 840 Pro instead. So instead of trying to create an argument based on a fraction of a post that I made, please read my post in full and my posts before and after, at least those with pertain to the same things.

You are the one who mentioned longevity of the drive, meaning you didn't do enough research.

Twice now for you I've posted a picture showing the 840 120 writing 480TB to the drive before dying and yet you keep going on about 78TB. Somewhere in this thread is the link to the benchmarks that were ran at Xtremesystems forums, you are welcome to look them up if you find the picture unbelievable and those tests were ran months ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

You are concerned about whether your 120GB 840 Evo could last 6 years(your "sustained period of time", I did mention most drives last "decades" on normal write usage ), and you dismissed the 250GB+ test results when they can easily be used to extrapolate the result for a 120GB(divide by 2 or 4 based on size differences if it is the same/similar models).

The 78 TiB test result(even if that is the upper limit) would mean the drive would last at least 7.8 years even if you write 10TiB a year on it(again, I'd like to see you try to write that much in a year)

If you are still concerned, here is a analysis by Anandtech based on the 1129 P/E cycle Estimated of 840 Evo's TLC NAND.


50GiB a day = 17.8TB written a year, in that case the 120GB 840 Evo will last 7.91 years for a total of 141+ TB written, for a mildly more realistic 7 TB written per year(I am on pace to write less than 5 TB on this 840 Pro of mine this year) your 840 Evo will last 20.15 years. That should be enough to assure you that your 840Evo's TLC NAND will not stop you from retaining your drive for 6-8 years as you wished.

Those are extremely conservative estimates the least to say. I'd say their P/E cycle is actually 2-2.5x what is estimated, making Samsung's TLC the best you can get commercially.
Edited by Liranan - 11/30/13 at 1:02am
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post #3340 of 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

You are the one who mentioned longevity of the drive, meaning you didn't do enough research.

Twice now for you I've posted a picture showing the 840 120 writing 480TB to the drive before dying and yet you keep going on about 78TB. Somewhere in this thread is the link to the benchmarks that were ran at Xtremesystems forums, you are welcome to look them up if you find the picture unbelievable and those tests were ran months ago.
Those are extremely conservative estimates the least to say. I'd say their P/E cycle is actually 2-2.5x what is estimated, making Samsung's TLC the best you can get commercially.

Alright. You win. Just ignore ALL my posts where I've mentioned where I don't particularly care about endurance.
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