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Why all the Bulldozer hate?!? - Page 7  

post #61 of 115
It all comes down to one word. INSTRUCTIONS. People think BD is a bad design, which it is far from. The only bad thing about BD is power consumption when at full load. That's it. It's not a bad architecture. BD is very efficient in FMA4 ops. Problem is hardly anything out there uses FMA4. BD is also fairly efficient in AVX but guess what again, not many programs out there use AVX either. Many people probably don't remember, but what happened in 2004 when SSE3 was introduced along with the P4? It was horrible because nothing at the time used SSE3. Now SSE3 is quite common and practically everything out there uses it. I knew from the start when I read about BD being a new architecture that it wouldn't come flying out of the gates. New architectures rarely do.

There are a couple of reasons why BD doesn't perform well in benchmarks. One reason is many of those benchmarks were developed with Intel tools. The other reason is because many of those benchmarks also use SSE3. BD was never meant to be efficient in SSE3. IMO the designers were focusing on the future, not the present. For those people who were disappointed, IMO they were expecting the wrong thing to begin with. Performance will increase with the new patch. However, we will not see miracles with the new patch. The miracles will come with this architecture when more programs start using the new instruction sets which BD is very efficient at.
post #62 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSunRises View Post

This is exactly right. If they dropped the 8120 by like $40 we would see a lot of people going AMD... Price needs to reflect performance.

Like the 3960X does? This is AMD brand new cpu flagship. It is not going to reflect performance until some time goes by. Just because 3960X is priced 5 times higher than 2500K doesn't mean that it performs 5 times better than 2500K. This is simply because it is brand new and is the best. For AMD this is brand new and it is there best for now. Prices will only reflect this until something new comes along and/or more time goes by.

My BD does everything I need it to. Most people dont use their cpu's to the max. They use them to get done what they need to get done. Even though BD does not perform as well as SB doesn't mean it wont get the job done well.

Once again, BD is not optimized yet whereas SB is. Give AMD some time to make their adjustments and optimizations along with windows scheduler and some minor bios tuning and BD should turn out to be a damn good cpu.

This new BD architecture is completely different than any other kind of architecture out there. This is the biggest change AMD has made in a very long time. Of course it is going to need time to mature.

I dont know why you guys are arguing anyway about this. We want AMD and Intel to be neck and neck all the time. This is better for everyone for intel and amd to go back and forth with competition.

With a little time, AMD will be able to turn BD into a damn good chip and hopefully gives intel a run for their money. Anyone who disagrees, I guess just want the consumer to get screwed out of the deal.

Think about it intel fans. If BD was a lot better, then your 2500 and 2600K would be a lot cheaper. Because you guys keep talking about how much BD sucks and this and that is why you are still paying the same amount for your chips.

Cant we all just get along. The more intel and amd keep pushing out better cpu's, the better for us. But it seems like you guys want one side to be on top forever. It would be ideal if one year intel would come out with an amazing chip and then the next year amd came out with something better and so on and so forth.

Stop arguing about what you think is better. Every chip has its own advantages. If you are satisfied with yours then good for you. Doesn't mean that yours is better than everyone elses. Just means that you like your chip. I like my chip. If someone didn't like their chip then I am sure they would get something different. I know I would. I know plenty of people that had intels that went with BD and I know many amd owners that went with SB. Its all personal preference. If you are happy with your chip then that is all that matters.

Please stop talking about how much you think another chip sucks because compared to someone else you are wrong. All I keep hearing is stuff like my dad is better than your dad. Hahaha. Does this not sound childish??? Lets just all get along and hope the best for BD because in the long run if BD does well then this benefits everyone.

As for the power consumption of BD, compared to my Phenom II x4 965, I pay an extra $4.00 a month for my 8120. To me this is negligible and to many others too. This kind of power consumption is not that much and with more time, like I said, optimizations willl be made and this will get better. Again, this is a brand new architecture that has no real experience. Once amd becomes familiar with their new chip, these things will improve along with performance and stability and higher clocks and lower power etc.

Lets all just get along. All of us should want BD to be a great chip. Anyone who things otherwise is just dumb because we all get screwed if amd cant keep up with intel. Thats all there is too it.
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post #63 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by computerparts View Post

It all comes down to one word. INSTRUCTIONS. People think BD is a bad design, which it is far from. The only bad thing about BD is power consumption when at full load. That's it. It's not a bad architecture. BD is very efficient in FMA4 ops. Problem is hardly anything out there uses FMA4. BD is also fairly efficient in AVX but guess what again, not many programs out there use AVX either. Many people probably don't remember, but what happened in 2004 when SSE3 was introduced along with the P4? It was horrible because nothing at the time used SSE3. Now SSE3 is quite common and practically everything out there uses it. I knew from the start when I read about BD being a new architecture that it wouldn't come flying out of the gates. New architectures rarely do.
There are a couple of reasons why BD doesn't perform well in benchmarks. One reason is many of those benchmarks were developed with Intel tools. The other reason is because many of those benchmarks also use SSE3. BD was never meant to be efficient in SSE3. IMO the designers were focusing on the future, not the present. For those people who were disappointed, IMO they were expecting the wrong thing to begin with. Performance will increase with the new patch. However, we will not see miracles with the new patch. The miracles will come with this architecture when more programs start using the new instruction sets which BD is very efficient at.

FMA4 and AVX have their own special need. Developers will only code their program with them if it helps. For BD to be not efficient on SSE3 is actually not good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezachlowe2004 View Post

As for the power consumption of BD, compared to my Phenom II x4 965, I pay an extra $4.00 a month for my 8120. To me this is negligible and to many others too. This kind of power consumption is not that much and with more time, like I said, optimizations willl be made and this will get better. Again, this is a brand new architecture that has no real experience. Once amd becomes familiar with their new chip, these things will improve along with performance and stability and higher clocks and lower power etc.
Lets all just get along. All of us should want BD to be a great chip. Anyone who things otherwise is just dumb because we all get screwed if amd cant keep up with intel. Thats all there is too it.

That's just you too. You != majority.

$4 * 12 = $48 more per year. In area such as California, it will be even significantly higher.
Edited by trumpet-205 - 1/4/12 at 1:33pm
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post #64 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Do you understand what the enhance scheduler does? It will help only if there are a few related threads or a few threads. In heavily related or independent threads, the improved scheduler won't do anything.

Ahh - I see. I stand corrected then smile.gif
    
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post #65 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post

FM4 and AVX have their own special need. Developers will only code their program with them if it helps. For BD to be not efficient on SSE3 is actually no good.

Companies should be selling products for today.... not for products for the future. Of course planning for the future is important but AMD should be improving the performance of software today first.

The future does not matter as much because.... in the future, you can release another product. It will take years before the instruction set extensions to be common. By that time, we will be a few CPU generations more.

Losing in the short-term for the possibility of long-term advantage is a risky move in the CPU world. Look at Phenom.....
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post #66 of 115
When I first got my chip i could only overclock to 4.8Ghz barely stable.

Now I am able to get to 5.1Ghz + and this is just from bios updates.

338

To be honest, this is a pretty damn good score, compared to what I have seen with BD.

I see BD improving very much in the near future and I hope it does. The more AMD does well and gets closer to intels performance the better intel is going to do and in the long run, the better for everyone.
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post #67 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmen View Post

I'm pretty sure I remember him being fired but if he wasn't, he deserves it anyway.

He wasn't fired. Honestly, that was a pretty stupid comment to make. That's as nice as I can be within the rules here.
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post #68 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Companies should be selling products for today.... not for products for the future. AMD should be improving the performance of software today first.
The future does not matter as much because.... in the future, you can release another product.

You, sir, are a genius. It's just like the original Phenom when everyone was saying "at least it's a TRUE quad core!!" What difference did it make if it was getting it's behind kicked by the Q6600? Enough with all of these moral victories AMD - give us something useful for TODAY!
    
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post #69 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post

FM4 and AVX have their own special need. Developers will only code their program with them if it helps. For BD to be not efficient on SSE3 is actually not good.
That's just you too. You != majority.
$4 * 12 = $48 more per year. In area such as California, it will be even significantly higher.

Yes but like I said it will get better with time. I dont understand. Do you want BD to fail so you can continue to pay high prices for your intel chip.

It doesn't make any sense. If someone likes paying outrageous prices for top of the line cpu's then yes I see the idea of wanting BD to fail.

But nobody wants that. Except you I guess, I dont know. What point are you trying to make that BD is not as good as SB. Are you a advertiser for Intel or something. I dont understand.

If BD came out in flying colors then Intel would have probably released their IB already and this is good for everyone. But for some reason you do not want this.

Like Pentium when it first came out was not that great because it was a brand new architecture. Then after optimizations it turned into a great cpu.

Do you not understand that it is a brand new architecture that needs to be optimized? We want intel and amd to be as close to performance and price as possible.

From what I have read from your posts, you do not want this. Doesn't make any sense.
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post #70 of 115
What's with that OCZ temperature?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezachlowe2004 View Post

Yes but like I said it will get better with time. I dont understand. Do you want BD to fail so you can continue to pay high prices for your intel chip.
It doesn't make any sense. If someone likes paying outrageous prices for top of the line cpu's then yes I see the idea of wanting BD to fail.
But nobody wants that. Except you I guess, I dont know. What point are you trying to make that BD is not as good as SB. Are you a advertiser for Intel or something. I dont understand.
If BD came out in flying colors then Intel would have probably released their IB already and this is good for everyone. But for some reason you do not want this.
Like Pentium when it first came out was not that great because it was a brand new architecture. Then after optimizations it turned into a great cpu.
Do you not understand that it is a brand new architecture that needs to be optimized? We want intel and amd to be as close to performance and price as possible.
From what I have read from your posts, you do not want this. Doesn't make any sense.

You putting words into my own mouth. Either you are desperate or I don't know what? Since when I did say I want BD to fail? I'm saying that FMA4 and AVX will have limited useage at this time. Not every single program out there can use them. In fact FMA4 usage will be limited given that AMD switched at the last minute from FMA3 to FMA4.

Or are you talking about power consumption? Really? I'm simply saying that not everyone is cool with that.

Fact is fact, overall BD cannot outperform SB at this point (a fair comparison). It isn't a failure.
Edited by trumpet-205 - 1/4/12 at 1:45pm
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