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Conroe Ops/Cycle - Page 3

post #21 of 39
LOL... this really seems that the ops per cycle thing is going the way as the MHz war once was... people counted on MHz; the higher the more impressive.

Now, history seems to repeat itself with ops per cycle: people just want to hear the higher number.
    
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post #22 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by shajbot
But I'd say it's 12
Then you would be misinforming people. There is no hard and fast singular number for as complex a processor as Core2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shajbot
But that's what most people count on
We overclockers are not "Most People". Most people are just happy that their system works

Most "Overclockers" demand a more realistic (reality based) approach to information. This is why there is so much dislike of the "Inquirer". What is real and what is not needs to be sifted so much that it is not worth the effort for most overclockers. The change has come about and those who demand to follow old methodology in the technical world are soon left by the wayside spouting off old unrealistic views. That's why we inform those of the new information out there. So that they can be well informed and in doing so, make informed decisions.

Here's a bit more research:

http://www.isaonline.org/documents/e...0per%20tick%22

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post #23 of 39
Ok so maybe the "other" factors of Core architecture is so overwhelming that a simple benchmark comparing won't be enough to tell the ratio -- the ops/cyc of. Maybe you're right though, I don't have anything to back up except some simple deduction.

On the other hand, Most People I said because truely, even overclockers and hardware buyers, would like to see how their new processor compare to other brand. And while this can be achieved by benchmarks, they're likely to make up a ratio to compare. But then other people mistake as ops/cyc, and ops/cyc on different architectures is total irrelevant like you say because there're other things beside it.
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post #24 of 39
I would say in the near future there might be some kind of bench marking tool for this new arcitecture, in tell then we will just have to wait.
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post #25 of 39
it doesn't matter. All we know is..that ALL of the conroes are better than ALL of our current processors....lol. Overclock a few Mhz, and you've got a BEAST!
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post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by shajbot
Most People I said because truely, even overclockers and hardware buyers, would like to see how their new processor compare to other brand. And while this can be achieved by benchmarks, they're likely to make up a ratio to compare. But then other people mistake as ops/cyc, and ops/cyc on different architectures is total irrelevant like you say because there're other things beside it.
Indeed, as Chozart has said, perhaps at this time the best method to compare given processors is to set them to identical tasks.

Given a Conroe system, one can perform the benchmarks, remove the processor and install a Pentium 4 955EE. Then the identical benchmarks can be taken to show as realistic a result as one can hope.

Even an AMD FX-62 on as identical a platform as can be obtained will give better results on a large bank of realtime stopwatch driven benchmarks than attempting to state a singular operation driven number that can easily be quite misleading.

Yes, there are those in sales who will try and give a hard and fast number that is not realistic but let's face it, most of those in sales are far more concerned with the sale than actual truth

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post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ropey
Indeed, as Chozart has said, perhaps at this time the best method to compare given processors is to set them to identical tasks.

Given a Conroe system, one can perform the benchmarks, remove the processor and install a Pentium 4 955EE. Then the identical benchmarks can be taken to show as realistic a result as one can hope.

Even an AMD FX-62 on as identical a platform as can be obtained will give better results on a large bank of realtime stopwatch driven benchmarks than attempting to state a singular operation driven number that can easily be quite misleading.

Yes, there are those in sales who will try and give a hard and fast number that is not realistic but let's face it, most of those in sales are far more concerned with the sale than actual truth

R

It's like this...learn classical Physics...then try to learn Quantum Physics.

Cpu's are not passive, ALU based, calculators anymore. They are not multiple ALU's and they are not cache management/ pre-fecthing engines anymore. They are a sum-total of all those things and more. Trying to understand the "core" is IMPOSSIBLE unless you are a graduate EE.

Some EE's would argue that a single person cannot understand the cores any longer. They have evolved in complexity to the point that whole teams work on different sections of the die.

It's crazy. Real world benchmarks are the only way to understand the differences (like Chozart was saying).
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post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenPC
Some EE's would argue that a single person cannot understand the cores any longer. They have evolved in complexity to the point that whole teams work on different sections of the die.
You are speaking to engineering of the architecture. We are speaking of quantifiable results in camparison with regards to different processor architectures. What we are speaking of can be understood far easier than the actual method of engineering which does not need to be fully understood at the Quantum level for what we need.

If one was to take a simple stopwatch and test the FPU, ALU, Cache Subsystem, etc. then one can gain enough understanding towards which processor they wish to purchase which makes them informed enough.

There is no need to create complexities in such a comparative analysis, and those who do create them do so needlessly unless they are attempting to reach a target audience that understands such complexities. I remember reading PHD level physics for the purposes of understanding, and was left completely confused. PHD level published documents created by PHD's for PHD's are not meant to be understood by the layman or student. That is not to say that we can not gain a glimmer of understanding with the proper documents that are aimed at our method of understanding. The links I post are not at the level of complexity that creates misunderstanding or my reason for posting would be suspect.

Very little in the physical world is understood in any complexity except by specialists instructed in that specialty of study. However, to say that it is too complex to understand the basics is to not even try to understand and I disagree with that position. One needs to understand to the depth of their desire, inclination and ability.

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post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by busa
I think I read somewhere that it is 11...6 one way 5 the other. Don't quote me on this tho..
I do believe The_Manaul already answered this here and I'm pretty sure he knows his stuff with regards to intel CPUs. I think the
conclusion was 12 or "11 if Micro-op Fusion fails to work"... Unless I've totally failed to understand what was being said, which is possible .

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post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highly-Annoyed
I do believe The_Manaul already answered this here and I'm pretty sure he knows his stuff with regards to intel CPUs. I think the
conclusion was 12 or "11 if Micro-op Fusion fails to work"... Unless I've totally failed to understand what was being said, which is possible .

Highly-Annoyed
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manual
As I said though "The number of operations that can be accomplished per clock cycle can never be determined" as this value is a variable not a constant as it changes per cycle depending on the task

You can generate an average over a certain period of time however
I agree, he knows his stuff.

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