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[FZ] Nvidia partners concerned about AMD's 28nm lead - Page 7

post #61 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe63 View Post

Remember when the 5870 came out and killed nvidia? BFG went out of business, then XFX jumped ship to ATI. Does EVGA have enough money to be an nvidia only partner if this happens again?

XFX jumped ship before that...There were XFX HD4890s that had bad PCBs in their second revision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metric View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe63 View Post

Remember when the 5870 came out and killed nvidia? BFG went out of business, then XFX jumped ship to ATI. Does EVGA have enough money to be an nvidia only partner if this happens again?

What do either of those have to do with the release of the 5870?

While BFG just didn't make any cards in significant numbers that I saw and XFX actually left a lot earlier, the HD5870 was selling well while nVidia was still only competing with the GTX 295 and GTX 285.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe63 View Post

Remember when the 5870 came out and killed nvidia? BFG went out of business, then XFX jumped ship to ATI. Does EVGA have enough money to be an nvidia only partner if this happens again?

NVIDIA is absolutely killing AMD in the very high-margin and growing GPGPU world though.

GCN is a great attempt by AMD to address this.... but they lack software support!

And AMD is killing nVidia in the IGP market (With Intel in the lead, still)

They're diverging, the gaming GPU market is going to shrink a lot in the future. Just like with the enthusiast (ie. Socket 2011) market, we'll get overclockable and not as well tested server parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe63 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFPS View Post

Killed nvidia? ATI was one that got killed. Case and point show me an ati 5870.
BFG put themselves business. XFX stop making motherboards. EVGA not closing any time soon. EVGA leads the way! thumb.gif


Where were you guys when the 5870 came out and nvidia had nothing to compete with, sleeping? Yes it happened.

When the 5870 was selling it was selling against the GTX275, show me one of those.

He wasn't sleeping, he was posting how nVidia was launching in December right until nVidia themselves said March and also saying the wood screws weren't real..Until nVidia confirmed it.
    
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post #62 of 116
For those who think that 5870 and whole 5xx series didn't do significant damage to NV , that's not true.
I have a friend who used to work for NV and got laid off not long after ATi's 5xx series lanunch, i talked with him about that and from what he said there were big lay offs in NVidia at that time.
Excellent 5xx series from ATi with 5870 on the lead plus late and not so great Fermi launch hit NV pretty hard , sure they still have bigger share of the market and they did bounce back a little after GTX5xx but thay are far from the shape they sported back with 8xx/9xx cards.
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post #63 of 116
I'm sure the 7970 will damage NV. It could get pretty ugly for them if Kepler really won't be released until the second half of the year.

Not the same as the 5870 though. Most people can't afford the 7970.

I typically lean towards AMD, but I really hope Kepler comes out soon. Either it'll blow the 7970 out of the water, cause the 7970 to get a significant price drop, or both.
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post #64 of 116
XFX still sells nvidia cards overseas, just not in US. I thought it was nvidia that broke the contract with XFX because they were made at them for selling ATI cards?
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post #65 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxthunder View Post

The partners dont know what to do until kepler arrives? Slash prices!

Wouldn't that be great. Doubt it will happen.
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post #66 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

I'm sure the 7970 will damage NV. It could get pretty ugly for them if Kepler really won't be released until the second half of the year.
Not the same as the 5870 though. Most people can't afford the 7970.
I typically lean towards AMD, but I really hope Kepler comes out soon. Either it'll blow the 7970 out of the water, cause the 7970 to get a significant price drop, or both.

79xx are pilot cards. They are a new architecture on a new, unreliable fab. The next couple of steppings should show marked improvements in 79xx cards (one reason not to rush out and buy one). AMD should have time for at least one major stepping before Nvidia releases (if it releases late Q1). If Nvidia slips to Q3, then AMD will not only have better 79xx steppings, but will also have had time to do what Nvidia did with Fermi, release a very tweaked version.

If you look at the transistors per mm^2 for 79xx vs transistors per mm^2 for 69xx, you will find that the increase is far less than the 70% shrink that 28nm provides (there's only a 52% shrink IIRC which means that a 25% smaller chip is possible using the same transistor count). The reason for only a partial shrink is likely due to poor yields forcing increased transistor spacing. Smaller chips (more chips per wafer for lower costs) with a moderate jump in performance (due to tweaking the new architecture and better binning) is more than enough reason for a "fixed" release.

note: AMD may be making more profit per chip for the 79xx series, but 28nm prices are through the roof because of all the companies (esp. ARM designers) that want it (resulting in quite the bidding war).

As to Kepler, I see three possibilities for the delay. The first is pricing and performance problems. Nvidia may be waiting for yields to improve before launching the next generation.

Second, Nvidia may have taken part of the GPU design team off the Kepler project to work on SOC designs (esp video decoders and gpus). This would cause big delays for Kepler, but with yields being poor and Nvidia staking so much on ARM chips (I do wonder what Denver is up to) that the delay in Kepler could be considered acceptable.

Third, There may be inherent problems with efficient scaling in the MIMD Fermi design. While the cores could probably be copy/pasted with a few tweaks here and there, the front-end may have problems that require a major redesign resulting in much longer development times.
Edited by hajile - 1/6/12 at 7:21pm
post #67 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

You also have 3d vision club, green machine club, and gtx 500 club in your sig, I guess thats kinda cute.
Well I guess thats a sign that you're completely honest and absolutely a trustworthy source. And completely objective. Yeahhh.

Honestly i dont know what do you mean.

I am not Nvidia Fanboy, and nowhere didi state anything that could hint that out.

Also, i actually love the new AMD card, because it shows how far did we moved, i also like the black nad red design, and i also like the scores. I am not going and bite and hate on AMD news cards, i am actually going to love them from afar. thumb.gif

I guess that since i own Nvidia card i am in such clubs, how cute isnt it. Why am i not in AMD clubs when i have Nvidia cards rolleyes.gif

And the last thing. A source. You dont have to believe me, or the guy above you, or the guy below you. You are free to believe what you want. In fact, why even discuss it. I didnt say anything about the launch, scores, graphs, or anyhting. How that, saying nothing, makes me whatever source ?

Also your join date....I stated my opinion, and it wasnt meant to create such responce. Please, dont continue. Thank you in advance
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post #68 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe63 View Post

Remember when the 5870 came out and killed nvidia? [snip]

While you're exaggerating and probably trolling, I'll respond anyway. 5870s were a much bigger deal because they were the first DX11 hardware made available, and nVidia lagged behind. However when nVidia eventually delivered, it was with a product that destroyed AMDs entire lineup in terms of DX11 performance. Yeah, they lost out on some enthusiast sales due to AMDs early launch.. but the thing about enthusiasts is that they buy the best. And nVidia rebounded due to superior hardware and eventually with the price/performance king in the GTX460.

Die shrinks are certainly nice, but outside of everybody here.. it doesn't really effect anyone. It's a newer, faster card.. not DX12. An early launch won't be nearly as beneficial to AMD this time around, especially considering the 7970's inflated price if overall performance goes the same way it has in prior generations.
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post #69 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowness View Post

I guess that i and few other that know some more information about next gen cards FROM Nvidia, will wait for their new cards. snip

Actually I do, I know someone who is on the inside (dont wanna say dept.) and they will be great cards, but why wait 6months when I can get a 7970 now and go back to nvidia in nov?

Actually I dont know anyone but saw how easy that was to say in a forum? Some people are ready to upgrade now and wont want to wait another 8months to do so. Such as the guy with a 560ti sli or the gtx570/580 user not looking to sli. Not to mention how much easier it will be to get the 6970 users to go with the new 7xxx since they are already on AMD, so nvidia looses the chance of them switching to green team anytime soon.

In the end, who cares what theory is, it comes down to real world experience/gameplay that matters, like I said earlier, look what happened to BD, so much hype for NOTHING!!
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post #70 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

As to Kepler, I see three possibilities for the delay. The first is pricing and performance problems. Nvidia may be waiting for yields to improve before launching the next generation.
Second, Nvidia may have taken part of the GPU design team off the Kepler project to work on SOC designs (esp video decoders and gpus). This would cause big delays for Kepler, but with yields being poor and Nvidia staking so much on ARM chips (I do wonder what Denver is up to) that the delay in Kepler could be considered acceptable.
Third, There may be inherent problems with efficient scaling in the MIMD Fermi design. While the cores could probably be copy/pasted with a few tweaks here and there, the front-end may have problems that require a major redesign resulting in much longer development times.

Well we've seen very little in the way of news from nVidia regarding the 6/7xx cards aside from that one roadmap and an article from a while back that stated they were going to manufacture the low end 28nm parts first. When we were told by AMD to expect SI before the end of the year nVidia quickly followed up with the same statement. For all we know they are ready with GTX 720, 740 etc parts to show off at CES.

If so that would point to them being fairly on track. The 7xxx cards will hurt nVidia, but as others have said it probably wont be to the same extent that the 5xxx series did. I'm more concerned about the release of the 8xxx cards as I don't see nVidia being able to pull anything out quickly enough to combat it aside from a minor revision and rebadging. Hopefully Kepler is as good as they say it is because, well, they need it and competition is always good.
 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [FZ] Nvidia partners concerned about AMD's 28nm lead