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Help & Advice regarding Phenom 960T unlock & OC

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

I have 2 quick questions concerning an overclock on my 960T with the extra cores enabled - why does it (seemingly?) increase the core voltage from its 4-core setting, even when the BIOS is set to the same for both? I'll put my specs and OC settings below, but when I unlock cores 5 and 6, hwmonitor reports an increase of max CPU VCORE to 1.55 under prime95 load, up from 1.41 with 4 cores. 1.41V is the BIOS setting, so I'm not sure where the discrepancy is coming from or what it means. Is this something I should be concerned about?

Also, how much heat increase is there when unlocking the extra cores? With my cooler, I wasn't ever seeing a temp over 39C with 4 cores, so I figure the extra 2 cores aren't a problem, but I don't know since it can't read core temps when unlocked.

My specs:
Corsair HX750 PSU
MSI 890FXA-GD65 mobo (BIOS 18.5)
Phenom II 960T cpu with CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo cooler
8 GB DDR3-1333 memory (2x4Gb)

OC settings:
5th & 6th cores unlocked
4 GHz (200x20)
CPU-NB @ 2600 MHz (200x13)
HT Link @ 2600 MHz (200x13)
CPU VDD = 1.35
CPU-NB VDD = 1.175
CPU Voltage = 1.41
CPU-NB Voltage = 1.200

With 4 cores, CPU-Z reports a Core Voltage of 1.41 volts as set in the BIOS. When the extra cores are unlocked and idle, 1.41 is the reading, but this maxes out at 1.55 after several hours of prime95 load. Turbo core, CnQ, C1E, etc all disabled.



Any other thoughts on this OC or any advice on where to go from here? I'm tempted to settle with a stable 4 GHz 6-core OC. This is my first serious attempt at ever overclocking, though, so advice/thoughts/warnings are much appreciated.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 14
That's an odd issue to have.... Check your LLC (Load Line Calibration) settings, if it's set to high it will anticipate increase draw at full load conditions and overcompensate with more voltage to counter vDroop. I'd also check to be sure that the issue isn't happening with it as a quad core.

I have a 960T myself, and I find myself running it as a quad more than an X6 because you can (usually) hit a higher core speed and possibly CPUnb speeds. I don't need the extra cores for anything so it just makes sense to me.

As for heat with the extra cores, it's definitely there. I never have to check temps as a quad, because my H100/MX4 TIM keep it under 50C under very high voltages, but I can't do that as an X6. Think about it, 33% increase in cores will roughly equal a 33% increase in heat dissipation at a similar voltage. Throw in the fact that it takes more voltage to overclock the extra cores compared to the quad, and you end up with alot of heat.

To read temps after unlocking, you'll have to look for a sensor (typically) labeled "CPU," which is actually the CPU SOCKET sensor. Just to be on the safe side, I generally just use it, as It will actually be higher than the CPU core temps because it doesn't have the same cooling. Adding a fan to the backside of the motherboard over the socket is recommended.

OH! Leave your HyperTransport at stock, you'll get no benefits increasing it, and it's likely to give errors. CPU/NB overclocking can really increase your performance too. Most people say to OC it as high as you can without passing 1.4v, 3000MHz is considered a good OC, but much past that is hard to stabilize. I got mine to 3200MHz after a long drawn out fight, and can boot at 3400, but that's never going to be usable. frown.gif
Edited by m0bius - 1/7/12 at 2:31am
post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the thoughts!

I've done a bit more testing and you are correct - the voltage increasing phenomenon occurs with 4 cores as well. The effect is just smaller, so I didn't take notice of it (ie an increase from 1.41 to 1.44). How can I find out the LLC? I was looking around in the BIOS for that yesterday and didn't see anything with that name.

I ran into some problems with the OC last night, sadly. It had run Prime95 stable for about 5-6 hours during the day without any issues, and I thought it would end up being stable. However, last night I ran some more prime95 and it started freezing and giving me the BSoD after anywhere from 10-45 mins of prime95. I'm not entirely sure what the culprit was, but I suspect ambient case temp was a problem. The heat in the room was probably 10F higher than during the day, and I'm not sure my case has enough cooling.

I was seeing temp readings of TMPIN1 (which I think is the NB temp?) of 68-72 under load, which I figured was way too high. The CPU socket temp (TMPIN0) was fine - I don't remember ever seeing it above 50C. I opened up the case and the air was very warm inside, and the NB heatsink, MOSFET heatsink, and RAM were all very hot to the touch. Most other things (e.g. mobo PCB, graphics card) were pretty warm too. In fact, the only thing that WASN'T very warm was the CPU cooler heatsink, which didn't feel hot at all.

My conclusion: the CPU cooler is effectively dissipating all the heat from the CPU, but it's not being drawn out of the case effectively and is therefore increasing the heat on all other components to levels which are too high. Solution? --> purchase a better 120mm rear exhaust fan for the case, and put the current one as an intake on the front of the case, and try again. I have a Cooler Master Elite 335 case and just purchased a Silverstone FM121 to replace the default rear exhaust fan. What do you think?

I won't get that fan until Monday, so I'm thinking that today I'll start back at square one - find max stable CPU OC without any voltage increases or NB/HT increases (thanks for the tip about HT link speed btw - I had read somewhere that Thubans like NB & HT to be the same, but I will leave it at 2GHz next time). I'm gonna try 3.8 and run prime95 for 12 hours or so and see what it does to my temps and stability. Is it a good idea to OC the CPU before doing any NB tweaking? I've heard different things on this - some people have told me just do one thing at a time, others have told me that a higher NB will help with CPU overclocking.

Any thoughts? I'm pretty sure I can get this to 4 GHz stable on 6 cores, but I still feel like I'm wandering around in the dark with what I'm doing. Once I get a stable 4 GHz OC with 6 cores, I plan to save the setting and then see how high I can go on 4 cores smile.gif
Edited by BigMack70 - 1/7/12 at 6:46am
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post #4 of 14
Just a thought, your 5th or 6th cores may be a bit duff or unstable hence the rise in voltage.
I would see what happens turning off physical 4 and then physical 5 see if you get a drop in the voltage. The 960T was never a dead cert for a 6 core just a large number of us have been lucky. You may end up with a stable penta core. I would try that and see
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post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Update: Reset HT speed to 2000 MHz, moved my case out of the corner to get better airflow, currently it's been running (6 cores @ 4 GHz) for 3 hours prime95... max socket temp 52C; max NB(?) temp 65C.

Gotta leave the house now but will get to run a 6-8 hour test tonight and then hopefullly a 12-15 hour test tomorrow. I'm thinking that once I get a better case fan on Monday to help keep mobo/ambient temps down, it will be stable.

IF I can get 4 GHz stable for a 24-48 hour prime95 test, is it worth trying for higher clocks on 6 cores, or should I then try to get my CPU-NB to 3 GHz?
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post #6 of 14
If your board supports it, LLC would be in your bios likely labeled Load Line Calibration.

Personally, I would go for the CPUnb OC afterwards. More to be gained than just another 100MHz on the CPU. NB temperatures aren't important, the CPU/NB is the only NB you would be tweaking, and it resides on the cpu itself, so overclocking/volting it will raise your CPU temps. There is a Northbridge on the motherboard itself that has a temp diode on it, and that is likely what your reading, but like I said, CPUnb, not NB.

Also, I read up some one your motherboard, as I've heard of VRM issues with certain MSI boards, and it appears you are not the only person with the voltage fluctuation. Also, I'm fairly certain that NB isn't going to be actually running that hot, as another issue people are having are faulty temp diodes.

I'm no MSI expert, so I'll wait and see if someone more knowledgeable can weigh in on the matter. Do some reading on it I guess, hopefully someone with some less disappointing news will come around. frown.gif Just play it safe for now.
post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks again for weighing in on this... if I can get it to run for 24-48 hours stable under a prime95 load, should I consider that a "safe" setting to leave my computer at for good?

I've heard that 1.5-1.55V is the upper limit of acceptable voltages for the AMD CPU to run 24/7, but if it is stable and I'm not having heat issues, I'm thinking I'll just leave it be. None of these issues come up with games, either - they are far less stressful on my temps/voltages so far than p95.

I've only messed with the CPU-NB stuff; I'm glad I guessed right! I knew that NB could refer to a couple different things so didn't know which one was the one to go for changing voltages on. Assuming 2.6 GHz turns out to be stable on 1.2V, I'm hopeful that I'll be able to get to 3 GHz on that. Is there any way to read the CPU-NB voltage from the OS? The only voltages hwmonitor reports under 2V are the CPU VCore and "VIN3" which is at 1.38V.

Also, once I get to a stable OC, should I ever re-enable stuff like Cool n Quiet so that the processor will throttle itself? I have all that stuff disabled because I read that was what you're supposed to do when overclocking, but I don't have a good understanding of how all that stuff affects an overclock.
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post #8 of 14
Most people recommend a 12h P95 run along with several hours of LinX tests at the maximum memory settings to ensure absolute stability. I find vcore errors faster in prime 95, while I find CPUnb/memory errors faster in LinX.

I wouldn't enable anything that modifies voltages after fine tuning an Overclock due to instabilities that can arise during throttling, if it doesn't sync right, it could drop the voltages too quickly (before core frequency goes down) and crash. I'm not to sure of all the methods that CnC uses, mainly because I always have it off.

There are many differing opinions on safe voltages, and the way I look at it is if I can get 4.3GHz stable at 1.475v (my sig rig), the 100MHz I gain pushing 1.55v isn't really worth the risk of being wrong and degrading the chip.
post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0bius View Post

I find vcore errors faster in prime 95, while I find CPUnb/memory errors faster in LinX.

Wow def +1 for that suggestion to use LinX... I hadn't ever used it before but it absolutely wrecked my OC. I couldn't even get it to run for 15 minutes testing all memory... it would BSoD and force me to hit the power switch on the PSU to turn it off. Increasing VCore did nothing; neither did increasing or reducing CPU/NB frequencies/voltages. Decided to switch which DIMMs I was using (I was using 3 & 4 rather than 1 & 2 since they were farther away from my CPU cooler). Gonna try all this again with LinX as my standard rather than prime95... much nicer to find out in 10 minutes if a build is unstable than finding out in 3+ hours.
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post #10 of 14
Where is your Dram voltage currently set (stock)?
You may need a slight increase which is common on AMD platforms.
 
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