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{Seronx}[Answered] GlobalFoundries 28nm-SHP is not FD-SOI. - Page 2

post #11 of 31
I'm sorry, but GloFo likes to talk the talk, but they hardly ever walk the walk. I'll believe it when I see it.
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post #12 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

Brazos was 40nm
The per-functional chip was for 32nm-SHP but because of PD-SOI, HKMG and e-SiGe
Intel 32nm is Poly Si Bulk with HKMG and Intel 22nm is a version of FD-SOI(With FinFets) with HKMG
Notice the AMD Process is more advanced
Bobcat Generation 2 and Bulldozer Generation 3 might be both on 28nm-SHP...with BCver2 using the FD-SOI features for Low Power Consumption
28nm-SHP FD-SOI(w/o FinFets), HKMG, and e-SiGe within the price tag of Poly Si Bulk and in the performance range of normal SOI
Quote:
Globally Diversified Capacity: GLOBALFOUNDRIES’ global footprint of its own 300mm fabs across 3 continents, plus the FabSync agreement with Samsung, firmly puts GLOBALFOUNDRIES far ahead of all other foundries in global capacity. This is both in absolute terms and in terms of offering supply chain de-risking with its own network of global sites, and by combining with Samsung for a total of 4 large, geographically-dispersed fabs for 28nm and below capacity in Korea, the US, and Germany.
http://www.globalfoundries.com/gtc2011/
28nm yields will be totally different from 32nm yields because GlobalFoundries will have access to at least 4 fabrication facilities instead of one(Dresden)
32nm = 80,000 Wafers per month
28nm = 80,000 + 60,000 + 12,000(152,000) Wafers per month the fourth doesn't show up in wikipedia but lets just say it is 8K placing it at double the amount of wafers
FinFET is a version of FD-SOI not the other away around
http://www.electronicsweekly.com/blogs/david-manners-semiconductor-blog/2011/12/intel-delays-finfets.html
Intel might not even release FinFet for logic instead just use it for SRAM

All right, no. AMD's 32nm is not "more advanced" -- it just has more fancy buzzwords attached to it. Also, Intel has confirmed that they're using FinFETs for logic and caches in Ivy Bridge.
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post #13 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neroh View Post

The process a chip is manufactured on is actually a big deal. Its pretty widley accepted GloFo is the reason for Llano's yields being piss poor and not clocking nearly as high as was first expected. Their process also has alot to do with the ridiculous power consumption of Bulldozer and the reason why it is way below its target clocks.
Theyve already moved their APU line to TSMC, unfortunately it looks as though Piledriver and Steamroller will be done by GloFo.

Shipping 10 million in Q2 and Q3 and shipping another 10 million in Q4 isn't piss poor

And that is only at 1 fab..28nm has four Fabs
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoler View Post

He might of been talking about future brazos chips that are going to be 28nm. But currently tsmc is making 40nm brazos correct? Anyways all of this is way over my head but jsut wanted to chime in thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Yes, I'm talking about the future 28nm Brazos, that GloFo was supposed to produce, but AMD's been having such a terrible experience with GloFo right now that they're switching to TSMC's 28nm node instead of GloFo's. Apparently Seronx has never heard of it.

28nm-HP is a joint op between GlobalFoundries and TSMC AMD designed both designs from GloFo and TSMC to look the same

And apparently you don't understand if GlobalFoundries 28nm-HP is cancelled then so is TSMC because they share the 28nm-HP design(TSMC & GlobalFoundries designing for the process has both happened already if one is dropped then both are dropped)

The only clear cut decision of removing 28nm Bobcat Gen 2(Krishna/Wichita) from 28nm-HP is to move it to 28nm-SHP

Which is probably FD-SOI
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeassa View Post

All right, no. AMD's 32nm is not "more advanced" -- it just has more fancy buzzwords attached to it.

Well I don't see Intel ever getting 8.5+GHz

AMD chips process from GloFo is much more advanced and doesn't have hot bugs or cold bugs most Intel chips receive from the Foundry

GlobalFoundries walked the walk and they are the best on the market

1st. GlobalFoundries
2nd. TSMC
3rd. IBM
4th. The Foundry

IBM really should be first they are the only guys to market a 96-core @ 5.2GHz
Edited by Seronx - 1/7/12 at 1:35pm
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post #14 of 31
No way IBM would ever fab AMD cpu's right? Seeing is how they are competitors in the server world? I guess that would be like intel fabbing for amd lol. I really see AMD's lineup getting better and better if not a huge progress with piledriver I def see a giant leap to 28nm and also there will be no yield issues as you speak of hopefully.
    
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post #15 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoler View Post

No way IBM would ever fab AMD cpu's right?
GlobalFoundries and IBM do joint research projects with other foundries

What IBM does with SOI GlobalFoundries does with SOI which AMD then uses that SOI process

AMD only uses IBM-like processes and since IBM vouched for SOI and it also seems they are vouching for FD-SOI it would only make sense...28nm-SHP being FD-SOI

And because FD-SOI replaces Bulk product it means it will be cheaper to go pure FD-SOI than rather sit on SOI which only gets more and more expensive

FD-SOI:
SOI on Half-node Bulk
Performance of SOI
Price of Bulk

PD-SOI:
SOI on Full-node
High performance but much more expensive

Bulk:
Low Cost
Average to Above Average Performance for the cost
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoler View Post

Seeing is how they are competitors in the server world? I guess that would be like intel fabbing for amd lol. I really see AMD's lineup getting better and better if not a huge progress with piledriver I def see a giant leap to 28nm and also there will be no yield issues as you speak of hopefully.

We are going to see most of the performance increases with 28nm-SHP not 32nm-SHP

So, Steamroller will be the thing to wait for

IBM won't be fabbing for AMD, I don't know the reasons but they won't

There can be Yield problems with 28nm-SHP but with a possibility of four fab centers that can output double the amount of 32nm-SHP wafers...well the yield issue would be a non-problem for the consumer level

There was also a study on 20nm FD-SOI that it has 1% higher yield rates than 20nm Bulk

GlobalFoundries so far only has one 20nm named for and it is 20nm-SLP but in the GTC 2011

You have 20nm-SHP/20nm-LPM/20nm-SLP
Edited by Seronx - 1/7/12 at 2:01pm
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post #16 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

Well I don't see Intel ever getting 8.5+GHz
AMD chips process from GloFo is much more advanced and doesn't have hot bugs or cold bugs most Intel chips receive from the Foundry

8.5GHz with exotic cooling on 2 "cores" (i.e. one module). Look at the power consumption of SNB/SNB-E v.s. Bulldozer then tell me GloFo's 32nm > Intel's 32nm. Or look at the overclockability of the 3870K (hint: not as good as 2500K/2600K).
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post #17 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeassa View Post

8.5GHz with exotic cooling on 2 "cores" (i.e. one module). Look at the power consumption of SNB/SNB-E v.s. Bulldozer then tell me GloFo's 32nm > Intel's 32nm. Or look at the overclockability of the 3870K (hint: not as good as 2500K/2600K).

With H20 1.598v both Bulldozer and Llano achieve 5.5-5.6GHz with ease

Power Consumption is part of the design

To make an actual comparison Bulldozer needs to be on Intel's 32nm

Using side by side comparison

32nm Intel Sandy Bridge can't get to hot
32nm Intel Sandy Bridge can't get to cold
32nm Intel Sandy Bridge doesn't have good clocking efficency

While it is reversed with Bulldozer
Edited by Seronx - 1/7/12 at 3:27pm
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post #18 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

32nm Intel Sandy Bridge can't get to hot
32nm Intel Sandy Bridge can't get to cold
32nm Intel Sandy Bridge doesn't have good clocking efficency
While it is reversed with Bulldozer

That is part of Intel's bulk CMOS technology. Poorer temperature tolerances.


On the other way, Intel's technology is AGES ahead of GloFo, like it or not, in terms of manufacturing.

If Bulldozer's process wasn't as leaky it'd probably be able to be clocked at 4.5GHz from factory. It wouldn't be able to achieve as fast clockspeeds under LN2, that's for sure. But that wouldn't matter in the race against Intel. Stock performance would.

Once again, you say it's more advanced than Intel's process. Yeah, it is. In theory. Practically, the final silicon (not the architecture) is WAY worse than what Intel has to offer.

TSMC's 28nm does pretty fine AFAIK.


If they can fix their errors and get a decent 28nm, Steamroller might prove to be an interesting product.
   
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post #19 of 31
Quote:
32nm Intel Sandy Bridge doesn't have good clocking efficency

You are talking about how bulldozer scales better going up in frequency? I did notice that SB are great at stock and even better at higher clocks but Bulldozer is "ok" at stock and it REALLY improves as the clocks go up with it. making it's scalability (is this a word? lol) better than sandy bridge. 6ghz piledriver cores anyone?!?
    
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post #20 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoler View Post

6ghz piledriver cores anyone?!?

This was AMD's goal.


But with those fat-slowass caches, no way in earth that can be done in an efficient manner.
   
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