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[zdnet]Could AMD be part of Apple’s supply chain? - Page 9

post #81 of 162
I know nothing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6EaoPMANQM
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post #82 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by konspiracy View Post

you would only know that if you were a computer hobbist.
The dumb college kids that spend Mom and Dads money have no idea the difference between AMD and Intel.
I mean knowing what you know would you buy a 2grand apple lappy or the I7 lappy with a mobileHD6990?

rolleyes.gif fixed
     
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post #83 of 162
Thread Starter 
This shows that the Thunderbolt wouldnt be a problem for amd and is not just an intel deal. Seagate has incorporated it in their products.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5345/seagates-goflex-thunderbolt-adapters

As for saying that apple will not go with amd cause of Thunderbolt is incorrect because it is not a intel and apple only concept. Anyone can do it.
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post #84 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

there is no other brand that comes even close to how the products look like in terms of raw design AND quality. And don't start talking about Lian li and the like because even Soldam cases fall short when you face them to the iMac Pro and the likes...specially at the price you get such products.

Quality my rear end, they don't actually have good quality in their cases. They mask poor design with aluminium for strength, IBM and Samsung (at least) can make a laptop as strong as a Macbook using plain old plastic. And it won't overheat and discolour.
As for Mac Pros..Having used one, it's quality would be roughly equal to a Lian Li. No-where near a Soldam.

Don't get me wrong, they are a premium brand, the hardware can nearly always be counted on and the cases aren't crap, they're just not as good as you're giving them credit for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

^Right, I'm going to waste 5 minutes watching fanboy vids when you could simply state the facts. Intel's HD 4000 graphics on Ivy Bridge are going to be like 60% faster than HD 3000, and AMD's A6-3400M integrated is only 30% faster. So now, you could go with a Ivy Bridge dual-core or a Llano (because we all know Trinity is being delayed), not a tough choice, give me the faster CPU, GPU, and lower TDP.

Realistically Apple would go with Trinity or whatever replaces AMD's E-series, since Llano just isn't bringing it compared to Ivy Bridge.

Also I think it'll be a tough sell for AMD in a Macbook Air, unless it's at least $100 cheaper than the Intel option. And yes, I realize that i3/i5 ULV's sell for a lot more than AMD's E-350... so Apple could pull off the pricing.


Trinity isn't out. Ivy Bridge isn't out. Trinity is due out around the same time as IB still...Not to mention I doubt IBs IGP is all its cracked up to be, why else would they have to fake a demo?

Even if you had Intel IGPs with superior graphics capabilities than AMDs, you also have to deal with Intels drivers. Which while generally reliable enough don't do much in the way of speed or give you many options to alter, not that its a bad thing for Apple and its users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bomfunk View Post

Quote:
Intel's HD 4000 graphics on Ivy Bridge are going to be like 60% faster than HD 3000, and AMD's A6-3400M integrated is only 30% faster. So now, you could go with a Ivy Bridge dual-core or a Llano (because we all know Trinity is being delayed)
Sweet! Where can I find those benchmarks? If those figures are true, I'm going to get myself a new IB setup like right now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezachlowe2004 View Post

Yep thats still like 100% worse than llano. Intel Integrated graphics = thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif

First I'll preface by saying that Intel's integrated graphics performance gains since ~2008 have been unmatched (percentage-wise). And they're continuing with their >50% jumps yearly, started with the jump from C2D to 1st-gen Core i.

All I see is the highest-end Llano integrated is 50% faster than HD 3000. The A6 is more like 30%. http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-6620G.54675.0.html
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-3000.37948.0.html

http://lenzfire.com/2011/12/new-amd-llano-and-trinity-apu-release-date-89969/
I'm seeing 30% GPU gain for Trinity. Big deal, 30% gain compared to Intel's 60% gain, it'll only be perhaps 30% faster on GPU, while AMD's CPU will be over 3 years behind Intel (slower than 1st-gen i7).

Erm, Trinity is new Bulldozer. 10-15% faster than Zambezi, it'll probably end up matching a first gen i7 at least.

And the average Macbook owner wouldn't notice the difference between a CULV Atom and a 5Ghz IB-e.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post


AMD already makes better integrated graphics...

IVY Bridge iGPU walks all over Llano. I don't know where you got that idea.

...Really? Comparing a current-gen Intel part to a last-gen AMD part even though the replacement part is still coming out soon?

Guys, AMD is winning in CPU performance. Bulldozer walks all over Kentsfield. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post


What do you look at when you purchase an Apple product?

Chances are most users wouldn't perceive any difference, so if Apple can gouge people further by including a less expensive AMD part that is close enough, they probably should.

You're smarter than that. People pay a premium for high performance. Their computer sales would plummet if they used the equally priced yet poorer performing counterpart. If AMD somehow came out with a superior mobile CPU though, they'd switch in a heartbeat.

Nearly anyone who's going to buy a Macbook doesn't know what AMD are, nor Intel. They'll go with whatever feels faster to them..And even a Pentium D feels fast to them, let alone a Athlon II or even Core i3 2100.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post

You're thinking of PC enthusiasts, not Mac users. The latter would be fine with a Pentium III in their Mac as long as it "just worked" and ran Twitter and Flickr.

There's no need for that... Actually Mac users tend to need more power than PC users(because the PC user-base is so huge of course). Especially in the movie/music industry. I'm a Mac user and I can't wait for Haswell. I'm waiting to buy the next IVY-Bridge 15" in April/May too just because I need the improved IPC as most of my programs are single threaded. 8 weak cores would be a step backwards for consumers. Their IPC hasn't improved since 2007.

Mac Pro users need more power. Most Mac users use Safari/Chrome/Firefox and go on tumblr and Facebook. You're not even thinking of the right chip, there's no Llano or Trinity 8 core chip.

And also, movies and music actually let BD shine...A 4.8Ghz is within pissing distance of a 2600k at 5Ghz in video transcoding alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post

Movie production is largely PC-based. Pixar uses Windows exclusively IIRC and has for years (which is ironic since the late Steve Jobs was their CEO.) Even the so-called "creative professional" segment is moving away from OS X more and more every year.

Real professionals who really and truly need real power use Xeon workstations and render clusters, not 15" MacBook Pros running single-threaded apps. I'm sure kweechy will be able to chime in on this one too.

They use Linux. Before that, it was UNIX. So while OS X is in the family of OS' they use, it's not the exact one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post



Movie production is largely PC-based. Pixar uses Windows exclusively IIRC and has for years (which is ironic since the late Steve Jobs was their CEO.) Even the so-called "creative professional" segment is moving away from OS X more and more every year.

Real professionals who really and truly need real power use Xeon workstations and render clusters, not 15" MacBook Pros running single-threaded apps. I'm sure kweechy will be able to chime in on this one too.

I never said they render on laptops... I said I use them. Way to twist words. My applications are mostly UNIX based so there's another reason why I use stable OS with a nice GUI. Look at what the engineers at Google, Facebook and many of the Silicon Valley companies use. They don't use OSX because it looks "pretty". The scientific research at my University is still mostly done on Xserve machines. Go into the Physics and Astronomy departments and see what the majority of Graduate and Postdoc students are using to do their research.

Apple still holds the majority in the movie and recording industry and they do use Xeons.
BTW, Pixar renders on Linux clusters currently while testing out rendering in the cloud. Guess what the employees work on though. tongue.gif Google Marionette to see for yourself. Or just see behind the scenes footage.

I use CPUs mainly for transcoding movies, compressing music and the like. BD is a great chip for me (I don't get one as I'm waiting for PD) yet I'm not going around claiming Intel suck for every fellow Linux user or that the majority of Linux users do what I do. Which seems to be your entire argument: "I do this, therefore EVERYONE needs my level of performance!"

Apple wouldn't likely get rid of Intel chips in their line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by el gappo View Post

I presume the only thing stopping them is yield issues. Llano itself is great for both mobile and even low end gaming applications. Can play source engine games on high with steady frames thumb.gif

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Apple said no to AMD because AMD couldn't actually get enough chips out, but it was a "For now" kind of thing.
    
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post #85 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikezachlowe2004 View Post

Heres another article showing llano graphics compared to sb graphics. Most cases show at least double the performance with llano and there are several that show a triple performance increase. Llano blows SB away when it comes to graphics.
These are for the desktop chips
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4476/amd-a83850-review/5
As for the mobile chips here is another review. Some cases llano does as little as 30% better than SB and in other cases llano does over 100% better than SB. AMD definitely has apu's on lock and with Trinity coming out before IB, AMD's going to be in the lead for a little while at least.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4444/amd-llano-notebook-review-a-series-fusion-apu-a8-3500m/11
And another thing on top of this is that anand is a intel supporter too so for them to show this much of a beating by amd, verifies even more how much amd's on top of the apu market right now as far as graphics go. That with their fusion tech too. Its good to see the underdog outperform dramatically in something and right now that the APU.
If it keeps up like this then their should be no reason why apple wont make a deal with AMD. Especially since their customers are more concerned with looks and graphics smoothness rather than performance and compute power. Also, apple puts ssd's in all their stuff to so this make a big deal when it comes to quickness, more so than cpu power which overall is not that different.

See:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

Your Anand benches are with a 6550D, which is clocked at 600mhz, which is 50% faster than laptop Llano. This is a thread about mobile, are we on the same page yet?
Please do check the official Intel site for HD 3000 clocks. Standard-voltage i5's HD 3000 runs at 1.3ghz core, compared to desktop HD 3000 at 1.1ghz core. So, let's do the math: Intel gets an 18% performance gain over your benches, and AMD gets a 33% performance loss. A bit of 7th grade math yields that the HD 3000 in laptops is within ~40-50% of AMD's 6620G Llano laptop.
So, if you're right, perhaps Trinity will be ~60% faster than HD 4000.
Anyways, enough bickering. Intel's ULV line will have HD 4000 graphics as well. These will have the same TDP as whatever will replace the AMD E-450. What do you think will go into a Macbook Air? 50% gain over 6310 (which is 80 SPs..), or 50% over HD 3000 (which is faster than A4 graphics/240 SPs). Perhaps Trinity will get shoved into a Macbook Pro eventually, might make sense. Idk. Don't see it happening for Macbook Air.
Edit: Also realize that Llano has a 35-45W TDP, never will go into an Ultrabook. If anything, it's Bobcat or it's replacement, with a ~17W TDP. I think most will agree that AMD's 17W APUs don't compete with Intel's 17W mobile i5's in terms of graphics or CPU performance. They're good for saving $1-200, that's about it.


So the question, who in their right mind would put a 17W AMD APU into a $1000 ultrabook? Clearly it won't bring it. ULV i3, i5, and i7 all have HD 3000, clocked within 15% of standard-voltage HD 3000. Bobcat has 20-25% of the SPs as Llano(going off 6520G and 6620G).
 
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post #86 of 162
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrbroad77 View Post

See:
So the question, who in their right mind would put a 17W AMD APU into a $1000 ultrabook? Clearly it won't bring it. ULV i3, i5, and i7 all have HD 3000, clocked within 15% of standard-voltage HD 3000. Bobcat has 20-25% of the SPs as Llano(going off 6520G and 6620G).

If they were to put amd cpu's in their ultras then they wouldnt have to worry about discrete graphics therefore making up for more than the power of intel sb and radeon gpu. Right?

Also, amd is working on trinity with 4W TDP and 8W TDP models.


Also Trinity is going to support 2133MHz RAM speeds which we all know intel is way behind on.

Trinity will support pcie 3.0 and it will be sporting the new radeon 7000 graphics. Yeayaa!!!!
Edited by mikezachlowe2004 - 1/10/12 at 5:31pm
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post #87 of 162
Thread Starter 
I just wanted to reply, someone was saying that Apple would never take on AMD cpu's because of Thunderbolt but if you take a look at this link it shows AMD working with Thunderbolt now. So AMD cpu's or apu might just be in apple fairly soon.
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post #88 of 162
So many incorrect statements posted... Intel works just fine with 2400Mhz RAM, AMD's "Lightning" Bolt is not compatible with Intel's Thunderbolt. They are two different products. AMD's "Lightning" Bolt will allow you to run USB 3.0, provide power and Display Port over the same cable. It won't allow you to daisy chain and the USB 3.0 will run at lower speeds than stand-alone USB3.0 adapters do. It won't be out till Dec/next year.

Honestly, they need to either work with Thunderbolt or come out with a new standard because USB 3.0 is horribly inefficient with its bandwidth and has a high latency. FireWire 6.4gb/s would be preferred.

Also, they don't need to use Trinity in their Ultrabooks because Ivy-Bridge's improved iGPU provides enough graphics performance. Having to resort to a slower performing CPU in their newer models would be devastating. With Ivy, they get improvements in both areas.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post


They mask poor design with aluminium for strength, IBM and Samsung (at least) can make a laptop as strong as a Macbook using plain old plastic. And it won't overheat and discolour.
Unibody MBPs do not overheat or discolor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Trinity is due out around the same time as IB
Trinity is coming out late in the summer. Ivy-Bridge is out in a couple months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

  • the average Macbook owner wouldn't notice the difference between a CULV Atom and a 5Ghz IB-e.
  • Nearly anyone who's going to buy a Macbook doesn't know what AMD are, nor Intel.
  • even a Pentium D feels fast to them, let alone a Athlon II or even Core i3 2100.
  • You're thinking of PC enthusiasts, not Mac users. The latter would be fine with a Pentium III in their Mac as long as it "just worked" and ran Twitter and Flickr.
  • B]Most[/B] Mac users use Safari/Chrome/Firefox and go on tumblr and Facebook.
  • Which seems to be your entire argument: "I do this, therefore EVERYONE needs my level of performance!"

You simply don't understand what the typical Mac user is like. Your ignorance is astounding. The typical Mac user is a professional scientist, engineer, programmer, student, recording engineer, film editor and the like working at a tech startup or Silicon Valley company. They know far more about computers than your average "PC" user. In part, because the PC userbase is so huge of course. You're trying to associate the average teenage kid with what the average Mac user is and the two are very different. Visiting Facebook and Twitter is what the majority of teenage PC users do as well. It's not related to what OS they're using.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

A 4.8Ghz is within pissing distance of a 2600k at 5Ghz in video transcoding alone.
Not only is it not even close in performance, it consumes more than twice the power. The movie and music industry is not going to be using BD en mass any time soon. Tahiti, on the other hand though, could actually be replacing Nvidia in the foreseeable future.
cinebench.png
power2.png


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

They use Linux. Before that, it was UNIX.
He's talking about Pixar testing cloud based rendering with Microsoft Azure platform. Before they moved to Linux clusters, they were using Xserve machines.
post #89 of 162
doh.gif Why is this in the news? and the rumor section?

My 2006 PowerBook G4 has a Radeon Mobility 9600. While I know it isn't a CPU it is still made my AMD. Therefore AMD is part of Apples supply chain.

425
Edited by andrews2547 - 1/15/12 at 8:31am
    
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post #90 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

So many incorrect statements posted... Intel works just fine with 2400Mhz RAM, AMD's "Lightning" Bolt is not compatible with Intel's Thunderbolt. They are two different products. AMD's "Lightning" Bolt will allow you to run USB 3.0, provide power and Display Port over the same cable. It won't allow you to daisy chain and the USB 3.0 will run at lower speeds than stand-alone USB3.0 adapters do. It won't be out till Dec/next year.
Honestly, they need to either work with Thunderbolt or come out with a new standard because USB 3.0 is horribly inefficient with its bandwidth and has a high latency. FireWire 6.4gb/s would be preferred.
Also, they don't need to use Trinity in their Ultrabooks because Ivy-Bridge's improved iGPU provides enough graphics performance. Having to resort to a slower performing CPU in their newer models would be devastating. With Ivy, they get improvements in both areas.
Unibody MBPs do not overheat or discolor.
Trinity is coming out late in the summer. Ivy-Bridge is out in a couple months.
You simply don't understand what the typical Mac user is like. Your ignorance is astounding. The typical Mac user is a professional scientist, engineer, programmer, student, recording engineer, film editor and the like working at a tech startup or Silicon Valley company. They know far more about computers than your average "PC" user. In part, because the PC userbase is so huge of course. You're trying to associate the average teenage kid with what the average Mac user is and the two are very different. Visiting Facebook and Twitter is what the majority of teenage PC users do as well. It's not related to what OS they're using.
Not only is it not even close in performance, it consumes more than twice the power. The movie and music industry is not going to be using BD en mass any time soon. Tahiti, on the other hand though, could actually be replacing Nvidia in the foreseeable future.

He's talking about Pixar testing cloud based rendering with Windows Azure platform. Before they moved to Linux clusters, they were using Xserve machines.
After reading many of your statements, I can't tell if you're just a troll or just extremely ignorant. In either case though, there's really no point in responding as it won't accomplish anything. I need to stop responding to these type of posts.


Finally, someone that isn't an obsessive apple hater. Though the average mac user works in silicon valley thing is a bit of a stretch, I know what you mean.

So many people are saying that Macs are not about performance, even though they have some of the highest performing cpu's on the market.
Apple will not be going AMD soon because AMD just can't keep up. I know many people that use their MBP for video/music production and plenty of coding as well. AMD stuff just isn't efficient enough compared to intel to be competitive at this time. That isn't to say that Apple will always be Intel, but Apple builds some very sleek machines, and with more efficient components, a sleeker design is possible
T420
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T420
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Thinkpad 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [zdnet]Could AMD be part of Apple’s supply chain?