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post #2411 of 3087
Yeah I know they are trying to help me. But I'm telling you that its not green, platina or algae neither. And you guys keep saying the same stuff over and over.

SD
post #2412 of 3087
Hiya Guys,

Just wanted to show why not to run Copper Sulphate in a loop. Yes its great at killing Algae etc but its just as good at killing tubing. I found this out months ago, but here are some more recent tests using different brands of tubing.

Here is 1 drop of Copper Sulphate (Found in most Biocides on the Market) to roughly 1 quart of water to accelerate the damage.Both pieces of tubing were brand new and placed in a glass Cup for only 24 hours (PH level was 7 at start and end of the test).

Results:




Even 1 drop to a whole loop with only Steam distilled will do the same.It just takes a bit longer. I been repeating this same test with Biocides in loops ,Jars and side by side systems just running steamed distilled. There is no question Copper Sulphate highly reduces the life of tubing and in my opinion should not even be sold for use in a PC loop.

Just thought i would add this as i now know for sure whether its soft tubing or hard tubing (Not bringing any brand names into it as it doesn't matter) Copper Sulphate will kill it.


But by no means is this an answer for all the problems in this thread. Just 1 thing to avoid.

Take Care.

EDIT: This was using only 1 brand of Biocide containing Copper Sulphate (Dead Water) so results could differ with other brands if anyone wants to try testing the brands they own it might help out a bit.

Just thought i would add that also.in case it was just the brand i was testing with. Trying to get straight Copper Sulphate to test some more. Just still curious to a bunch of different things. At least we have a few good tubing's on the market now to run but still trying different things that i find can cause tubing damage also.
Edited by mybadomen - 2/6/13 at 3:16pm
   
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post #2413 of 3087
Dang, that's bad... It looks even worse on the bottom tubing, whatever kind it is. This has got me thinking now, but at this point, anyone that's going to buy a biocide, make sure it doesn't have Copper Sulfate. I went with Koolance's coolant so I don't have any issues myself, but I might know a few people that might want to check this out.

Also as a question, what's with the dates on the tubing? They're throwing me off. wink.gif
post #2414 of 3087
Durelene still the way to go? I'm going to do some loop maintenence soon.
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post #2415 of 3087
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagz View Post

Durelene still the way to go? I'm going to do some loop maintenence soon.

im loving my primochill advanced lrt, tested out the clear for a month and have zero clouding or plasitcizer issues, so i ordered 10ft of the bloodshed red primochill advanced lrt biggrin.gifthumb.gif
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post #2416 of 3087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lareson View Post

Dang, that's bad... It looks even worse on the bottom tubing, whatever kind it is. This has got me thinking now, but at this point, anyone that's going to buy a biocide, make sure it doesn't have Copper Sulfate. I went with Koolance's coolant so I don't have any issues myself, but I might know a few people that might want to check this out.

Also as a question, what's with the dates on the tubing? They're throwing me off. wink.gif


Lol was just the date i put them in as i was thinking i would get at least 3 days . But nope next morning they looked like the photo. remember this was more Biocide then recommended but i also got same results using the proper mixture over a longer period of time compared to using straight distilled. so basically the dates mean nothing because the test didn't last long enough.Still would love to see some others also try it using there biocides or tubing's to see if the results are the same though.
   
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post #2417 of 3087
Quote:
Originally Posted by mybadomen View Post

Hiya Guys,

Just wanted to show why not to run Copper Sulphate in a loop. Yes its great at killing Algae etc but its just as good at killing tubing. I found this out months ago, but here are some more recent tests using different brands of tubing.

Here is 1 drop of Copper Sulphate (Found in most Biocides on the Market) to roughly 1 quart of water to accelerate the damage.Both pieces of tubing were brand new and placed in a glass Cup for only 24 hours (PH level was 7 at start and end of the test).

Results:




Even 1 drop to a whole loop with only Steam distilled will do the same.It just takes a bit longer. I been repeating this same test with Biocides in loops ,Jars and side by side systems just running steamed distilled. There is no question Copper Sulphate highly reduces the life of tubing and in my opinion should not even be sold for use in a PC loop.

Just thought i would add this as i now know for sure whether its soft tubing or hard tubing (Not bringing any brand names into it as it doesn't matter) Copper Sulphate will kill it.


But by no means is this an answer for all the problems in this thread. Just 1 thing to avoid.

Take Care.

EDIT: This was using only 1 brand of Biocide containing Copper Sulphate (Dead Water) so results could differ with other brands if anyone wants to try testing the brands they own it might help out a bit.

Just thought i would add that also.in case it was just the brand i was testing with. Trying to get straight Copper Sulphate to test some more. Just still curious to a bunch of different things. At least we have a few good tubing's on the market now to run but still trying different things that i find can cause tubing damage also.


I had long suspected that copper sulphate was a leading cause of plasterisation, mainly because of the biocide we use for work has been causing problems with rubber seals needing replacement every 2 months I remedied the problem by using PTFE seals 12 months later no leaks. (I work in a tannery). I also suspect that silver coils are another cause of build up as everyone says they work because the coil is dissappearing but if it is not suspended in the water then it could only be deposited somewhere in the loop, It has to be some where as it defies physics to completly dissappear.

These photos are from my water loop that have been in storage for over 3 years I had left automotive antifreeze connected in a loop to protect the radiator and cpu from corrosion. one is cheap hardware store pvc and the other is the supplied tubing with my thermaltake armour cooling kit.
I removed the loop because of upgrade to sandy bridge and the waterblock didn't fit and a half decent air cooler was half the price of a cpu waterblock. I had a 4.5 Ghz oc maxing out at 75 degrees on a prime blend.

I seen this thread accidently when trying to decide what to fill my new water loop up with (I tried to kill the water cooling addiction but it came back) in the end I decided again to use automotive antifreeze red in colour. The only reasons I see why people are against this is;
-glycol reduces the themal conductivity by 5-10%
-glycol is conductive
-glycol may attack plexiglass(I have seen evidence of this on some plastics)

I am pulling down my rig to fit gpu blocks and add another radiator next week but still after 2 months my xspc tubing is still crysal clear but will confirm this later.
Edited by feznz - 2/6/13 at 11:25pm
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post #2418 of 3087
Quote:
Originally Posted by mybadomen View Post

Hiya Guys,

Just wanted to show why not to run Copper Sulphate in a loop. Yes its great at killing Algae etc but its just as good at killing tubing. I found this out months ago, but here are some more recent tests using different brands of tubing.

Here is 1 drop of Copper Sulphate (Found in most Biocides on the Market) to roughly 1 quart of water to accelerate the damage.Both pieces of tubing were brand new and placed in a glass Cup for only 24 hours (PH level was 7 at start and end of the test).

Results:




Even 1 drop to a whole loop with only Steam distilled will do the same.It just takes a bit longer. I been repeating this same test with Biocides in loops ,Jars and side by side systems just running steamed distilled. There is no question Copper Sulphate highly reduces the life of tubing and in my opinion should not even be sold for use in a PC loop.

Just thought i would add this as i now know for sure whether its soft tubing or hard tubing (Not bringing any brand names into it as it doesn't matter) Copper Sulphate will kill it.


But by no means is this an answer for all the problems in this thread. Just 1 thing to avoid.

Take Care.

EDIT: This was using only 1 brand of Biocide containing Copper Sulphate (Dead Water) so results could differ with other brands if anyone wants to try testing the brands they own it might help out a bit.

Just thought i would add that also.in case it was just the brand i was testing with. Trying to get straight Copper Sulphate to test some more. Just still curious to a bunch of different things. At least we have a few good tubing's on the market now to run but still trying different things that i find can cause tubing damage also.

You never bothered to mention what brand tubing you used in your pictures shown! headscratch.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qu1ckset View Post

im loving my primochill advanced lrt, tested out the clear for a month and have zero clouding or plasitcizer issues, so i ordered 10ft of the bloodshed red primochill advanced lrt biggrin.gifthumb.gif

Tell us what you're using as far as biocide or silver coils to keep algae from forming, or are you just running distilled?
post #2419 of 3087
In reply to this quote : "I had long suspected that copper sulphate was a leading cause of plasterisation"


I say this:

http://www.materialsviews.com/barrier-coating-reduces-plasticizer-leaching-from-pvc/ (i've posted this link 3 times before)

This fully explains the cause of plasticizer seepage (commonly known in water cooling circles as plasticizer problems)

(buy the PDF if you want the in-depth version: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ppap.201200005/abstract;jsessionid=9BDFFDBF729C07E227FF1F81F6A53782.d02t02)


Anything
introduced into a loop performs the role of a catalyst-the catalyst depending on it's strength or chemical composition, will be the reason for the increase of speed at which tube deterioration takes place and not the initial & main reason for plasticizer problems-PLASTICIZER PROBLEMS ARE ENDEMIC BY THE VERY FACT THAT IT (PLASTICIZER) IS USED IN TUBING.


The problem for tubing manufacturers is being able to make tubing that isn't vulnerable to the catalyst, and more importantly tubing that does not suffer from plasticizer seepage-some tubing companies are closer to the goal than others.


This is in no way meant to demean any feedback or experiments that many of us that are interested in finding a solution have undertaken-such endeavours also play an important role thumb.gif


But it is time to realise that ALL tubing eventually suffers from plasticizer seepage-from the moment the tubing is made, the breakdown process begins-some faster than others.

What we water coolers add to the loop does not cause plasticizer, it merely increases the speed at which it appears, and the amount.

The facts are there-all it takes is a little effort to look them up.

Some manufacturers claim to have solved the problem, some haven't, and some are quietly working on the problem (if they have any financial sense).

There is no main culprit, there are many variables that must be taken into account by the tubing manufacturers-but that isnt of any real interest to 95% of the consumers-what the consumer wants is tubing that works-plain and simple wink.gif
Edited by kkorky - 2/7/13 at 5:44am
post #2420 of 3087
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkorky View Post

In reply to this quote : "I had long suspected that copper sulphate was a leading cause of plasterisation"


I say this:

http://www.materialsviews.com/barrier-coating-reduces-plasticizer-leaching-from-pvc/ (i've posted this link 3 times before)

This fully explains the cause of plasticizer seepage (commonly known in water cooling circles as plasticizer problems)

(buy the PDF if you want the in-depth version: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ppap.201200005/abstract;jsessionid=9BDFFDBF729C07E227FF1F81F6A53782.d02t02)


Anything
introduced into a loop performs the role of a catalyst-the catalyst depending on it's strength or chemical composition, will be the reason for the increase of speed at which tube deterioration takes place and not the initial & main reason for plasticizer problems-PLASTICIZER PROBLEMS ARE ENDEMIC BY THE VERY FACT THAT IT (PLASTICIZER) IS USED IN TUBING.


The problem for tubing manufacturers is being able to make tubing that isn't vulnerable to the catalyst, and more importantly tubing that does not suffer from plasticizer seepage-some tubing companies are closer to the goal than others.


This is in no way meant to demean any feedback or experiments that many of us that are interested in finding a solution have undertaken-such endeavours also play an important role thumb.gif


But it is time to realise that ALL tubing eventually suffers from plasticizer seepage-from the moment the tubing is made, the breakdown process begins-some faster than others.

What we water coolers add to the loop does not cause plasticizer, it merely increases the speed at which it appears, and the amount.

The facts are there-all it takes is a little effort to look them up.

Some manufacturers claim to have solved the problem, some haven't, and some are quietly working on the problem (if they have any financial sense).

There is no main culprit, there are many variables that must be taken into account by the tubing manufacturers-but that isnt of any real interest to 95% of the consumers-what the consumer wants is tubing that works-plain and simple wink.gif

concidering that the tubing I have tubing that has had over 5 years in contact with antifreeze (2 years in loop 3 years in storage) I must have some super tubing if someone can replcate clouding/plasterisation in 24 hours with copper sulphate.
Copper sulphate maybe a accelerant to this process to techinically correct.
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LG UC9938-w AOC 24"  AOC 24" G19 
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enermax maxrevo 1500w nzxt 820 Phantom saitik rat 9 Asus Xonar DX 
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