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post #61 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post

It's like Apple moving from PowerPC to the x86 architecture. Yes, there was an adjustment period, but it went fairly smoothly and forced devs to code for a better platform. I see no difference in forcing the 64bit OS. Yes, a transition period would occur, but that was the whole point of introducing a 64bit OS with 32bit integrated.
Linux just does not do anything for me. I've ran home servers with it and it's great, but when it comes to a desktop platform, it's extremely weak in a lot of areas. Media apps such as Photoshop, InDesign, and even audio/video apps don't have a comparable app or aren't as robust on the Linux platform. Linux itself is so fragmented with varying distros and features therein. Which is why, for me, Windows is my platform of choice for desktop (which, I used to LOVE OS X, but the lack of games and hardware modding moved me over to Windows).

So basically the programs don't look and function exactly the same (primarily for legal reasons) and you didn't feel like doing a small bit of re-learning to adjust to products from a different software development group - and therefore talk down on Linux as a desktop OS. That's like applying for a job at a major game development company who uses Maya for 3d modeling and then talking down on Maya because when you went to college all they taught was 3D Studio Max even though you knew they used a different product to begin with, and just refused to learn the differences. Honestly the GIMP has had intelligent fill as either a plugin or mainstream for almost 4 years now iirc. (Photoshop CS5's new shiny feature "Content-Aware Fill") Granted, in its infancy it was nowhere NEAR as good as Adobe's initial release of the feature, but at this point the two features are nearly identical in result. I learned Photoshop first, but the free flowing interface of GIMP has grown on me, I can leave my swatches, history, and tools on a screen and dedicate an entire monitor to image manipulation, its heaven. I know - you can do this with later additions of Photoshop now as well.

Your argument for games is null, OSX lacks a lot of mainstream gaming, even with the addition of Steam, and most users who want a lot of the top dollar games opt for using DARWINE (wine for mac) to run their games. Linux also lacks a lot of mainstream gaming, and I'm not arguing that, but to say there isn't an abundance of native Linux games is ignorant. Almost everything ID Software made prior to their shift toward console gaming had a Linux client; and every iteration of Unreal Tournament prior to UT3 had a native client as well. DOOM 3 which set a new standard for graphics was released on Linux and looked every bit as pretty as its Windows counterpart. Basically its not that Linux isn't good enough to game on, its that the industry is lazy and cheap. Stop pointing the finger at the wrong party, please.

Also, your mention of fragmentation is no different than when you go out and buy a Dell or an HP, you get a different set of pre-installed garbage software that you usually have to sift through to get what you want out of the OS. This is no different when you install something like Ubuntu - you are installing a bloated Linux installation designed to provide the tools most desktop users will use. Some of them may not be your favorite, some may be irritating to you - just uninstall the garbage and move on. If that's your real complaint, I suggest starting with an OS like Arch, you get to pick all of the features and applications that you want - from the ground up.
Edited by Xaero252 - 1/22/12 at 12:12pm
    
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post #62 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

I'll explain using 8-bit binary numbers. 8-bits is 2^8-1.
2^8 = 256, but if we write this in binary we get 1 0000 0000 (9-bits). To get 8 ones, we need to subtract 1.
1 0000 0000 - 1 = 1111 1111 = 255
The reason that this occurs is because the the first "number" is 0. If we add the zero (as a number) to the 255, we get 256 total numbers even though the highest number is 255.
This process works the same way for 64-bit (just with more ones and zeros).
edit: I'll also show why using the smaller 4-bit amount.
2^4 = 16. That is the total amount of numbers, but the largest number is actually 15. Below I've written all the numbers out to illustrate.
0000 -0
0001 -1
0010 -2
0011 -3
0100 -4
0101 -5
0110 -6
0111 -7
1000 -8
1001 -9
1010 -10
1011 -11
1100 -12
1101 -13
1110 -14
1111 -15 = 2^4-1
1 000 = 16 = 2^4

so the -1 is not part of the exponent...
sloppy math
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post #63 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaero252 View Post

So basically the programs don't look and function exactly the same (primarily for legal reasons) and you didn't feel like doing a small bit of re-learning to adjust to products from a different software development group - and therefore talk down on Linux as a desktop OS. That's like applying for a job at a major game development company who uses Maya for 3d modeling and then talking down on Maya because when you went to college all they taught was 3D Studio Max even though you knew they used a different product to begin with, and just refused to learn the differences. Honestly the GIMP has had intelligent fill as either a plugin or mainstream for almost 4 years now iirc. (Photoshop CS5's new shiny feature "Content-Aware Fill") Granted, in its infancy it was nowhere NEAR as good as Adobe's initial release of the feature, but at this point the two features are nearly identical in result. I learned Photoshop first, but the free flowing interface of GIMP has grown on me, I can leave my swatches, history, and tools on a screen and dedicate an entire monitor to image manipulation, its heaven. I know - you can do this with later additions of Photoshop now as well.
Your argument for games is null, OSX lacks a lot of mainstream gaming, even with the addition of Steam, and most users who want a lot of the top dollar games opt for using DARWINE (wine for mac) to run their games. Linux also lacks a lot of mainstream gaming, and I'm not arguing that, but to say there isn't an abundance of native Linux games is ignorant. Almost everything ID Software made prior to their shift toward console gaming had a Linux client; and every iteration of Unreal Tournament prior to UT3 had a native client as well. DOOM 3 which set a new standard for graphics was released on Linux and looked every bit as pretty as its Windows counterpart. Basically its not that Linux isn't good enough to game on, its that the industry is lazy and cheap. Stop pointing the finger at the wrong party, please.
Also, your mention of fragmentation is no different than when you go out and buy a Dell or an HP, you get a different set of pre-installed garbage software that you usually have to sift through to get what you want out of the OS. This is no different when you install something like Ubuntu - you are installing a bloated Linux installation designed to provide the tools most desktop users will use. Some of them may not be your favorite, some may be irritating to you - just uninstall the garbage and move on. If that's your real complaint, I suggest starting with an OS like Arch, you get to pick all of the features and applications that you want - from the ground up.

Wow, exaggerate much?
Gimp is garbage compared to Photoshop. It can't even take on Photoshop Elements. So why even try to argue? It lacks a great many features, the UI is terrible, and it's just about two steps above MS paint. How about Filters? Yeah, there's such a wide variety for GIMP. rolleyes.gif

Wine and Darwine are not native apps. No matter how much you vouch for them, they'll never run as smooth as a Native app or game. Ever. It's an emulation. You think I want to play UT2 and old ID games? lachen.gif How smooth is BF3 in Wine? How about Deus Ex HR? Company of Heroes? Arkham Asylum/City? Crysis? Metro? STALKER?

I'm not ignorant, you're just trying to prove something. To who, I dunno. I've already stated why *I* prefer Windows as a desktop environment, and with very valid reasons. I'd appreciate if you get of your Soapbox and throwing a tantrum. Linux is not for everyone. If YOU want it to be, then do something about it and make better apps. Until it's a supported platform by major developers (apps and games alike), it will be relegated to budget servers in my house. I could care less who's responsible for the lack of support. Linux was never even intended as a contender for major Desktop release, and though the effort is valiant, it's futile.

As far as fragmentation, no, Windows 7 is Windows 7 is Windows 7. Sure, I can buy an HP or Dell that has it's own bloat added, OR, I could just install the OS onto my custom built rig with little bloat. With Linux, you have very different GUI's, some distros come with certain features while others don't, some have preinstalled drivers some don't, some take more tinkering and some don't. I'm sorry you're so insecure about Linux but again, not my problem.
post #64 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirWaWa View Post

so the -1 is not part of the exponent...
sloppy math

It's not sloppy math, it's standard order of operations. In the standard order, exponents take higher precedence than subtraction. 2^64-1 = (2^64) - 1 != 2^(64 - 1)

to quote wikipedia:
Quote:
The order of operations, or precedence, used throughout mathematics, science, technology and many computer programming languages is expressed here:

terms inside parentheses or brackets
exponents and roots
multiplication and division
addition and subtraction

This means that if a mathematical expression is preceded by one operator and followed by another, the operator higher on the list should be applied first. The commutative and associative laws of addition and multiplication allow terms to be added in any order and factors to be multiplied in any order, but mixed operations must obey the standard order of operations.

It is helpful to treat division as multiplication by the reciprocal (multiplicative inverse) and subtraction as addition of the opposite (additive inverse). Thus 3/4 = 3 ÷ 4 = 3 • ¼; in other words the quotient of 3 and 4 equals the product of 3 and ¼. Also 3 − 4 = 3 + (−4); in other words the difference of 3 and 4 equals the sum of positive three and negative four. With this understanding, we can think of 1 - 2 + 3 as the sum of 1, negative 2, and 3, and add in any order: (1 - 2) + 3 = -1 + 3 = 2 and in reverse order (3 - 2) + 1 = 1 + 1 = 2. The important thing is to keep the negative sign with the 2.

The root symbol, √, requires a symbol of grouping around the radicand. The usual symbol of grouping is a bar (called vinculum) over the radicand. For the application of other functions, such as logarithm or cosine, the grouping is advised and denoted by parenthesis or brackets.

Stacked exponents are applied from the top down.

Symbols of grouping can be used to override the usual order of operations. Grouped symbols can be treated as a single expression. Symbols of grouping can be removed using the associative and distributive laws.
post #65 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post

It's like Apple moving from PowerPC to the x86 architecture. Yes, there was an adjustment period, but it went fairly smoothly and forced devs to code for a better platform. I see no difference in forcing the 64bit OS. Yes, a transition period would occur, but that was the whole point of introducing a 64bit OS with 32bit integrated.
Linux just does not do anything for me. I've ran home servers with it and it's great, but when it comes to a desktop platform, it's extremely weak in a lot of areas. Media apps such as Photoshop, InDesign, and even audio/video apps don't have a comparable app or aren't as robust on the Linux platform. Linux itself is so fragmented with varying distros and features therein. Which is why, for me, Windows is my platform of choice for desktop (which, I used to LOVE OS X, but the lack of games and hardware modding moved me over to Windows).
There's a huge difference though.... Apple had virtually no marketshare in business desktops when they moved to x86. For a company like MS to make such a change, it would require massive amount of compatibility testing. To get Windows 7 validated at my company of 30K+ PCs and thousands of applications (internal and vendor), it takes about 2 years. That is just Windows XP to W7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirWaWa View Post

so the -1 is not part of the exponent...
sloppy math
Nope, it is correct due to order of operations. If -1 was part of the exponent, it must be written as 2^(64-1).... which would just be be 2^63.
Once again...
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Once again...
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post #66 of 87
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Originally Posted by XNine View Post

Linux is NOT a viable desktop solution.

Then obviously 64-bit computing is not a high priority for you, nor anyone else who doesn't use Linux (ie. most people).
    
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post #67 of 87
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Originally Posted by randomizer View Post

Then obviously 64-bit computing is not a high priority for you, nor anyone else who doesn't use Linux (ie. most people).

Huh? 64-bit computing is beneficial to anyone that needs the address space... I have no intentions of using Linux
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post #68 of 87
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Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

Huh? 64-bit computing is beneficial to anyone that needs the address space... I have no intentions of using Linux

Then once again, 64-bit computing is not a high priority for you. I never said that it is or isn't beneficial (nor did I wish to start a debate about GIMP vs Photoshop), but if you really want it then it's available to you. There are lots of people complaining about a lack of widespread 64-bit computing, but they do not wish to use the enormous amount of 64-bit software available. I dare say that most haven't even communicated their displeasure to the publishers and developers of the software that they do use. I certainly haven't, but that's because 64-bit software is not a high priority for me either.
    
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post #69 of 87
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Originally Posted by randomizer View Post

Then obviously 64-bit computing is not a high priority for you, nor anyone else who doesn't use Linux (ie. most people).

Uh, what? Linux doesn't offer a fraction of what I want out of an OS, so why would I even consider using it in the first place? 64Bit OS's have been around for quite sometime now, and to think that we can should still use 32-bit is a ridiculous notion. What it comes down to is laziness and apathy. Companies don't want to spend money for their devs to make apps that utilize 64 bit. "If it still works, why make it better?" Microsoft can push Windows 8 with 64-bit only. I mean, how many enterprises have actually moved away from XP 32-bit to Windows Vista or 7? Not many, at all. So why not take the leap now, while they still have 32bit OS's functioning in the mainstream?
post #70 of 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post

Uh, what? Linux doesn't offer a fraction of what I want out of an OS, so why would I even consider using it in the first place? 64Bit OS's have been around for quite sometime now, and to think that we can should still use 32-bit is a ridiculous notion. What it comes down to is laziness and apathy. Companies don't want to spend money for their devs to make apps that utilize 64 bit. "If it still works, why make it better?" Microsoft can push Windows 8 with 64-bit only. I mean, how many enterprises have actually moved away from XP 32-bit to Windows Vista or 7? Not many, at all. So why not take the leap now, while they still have 32bit OS's functioning in the mainstream?

What applications that you use benefit from 64-bit?

In the scope of a filesystem, NTFS is behind the competition on Linux and BSD. ReFS seems to be awfully similar to drive extender on Windows Home Server.
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