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A little numbness in my right hand, can anyone recommend a good gaming mouse and mousepad? - Page 2

post #11 of 32
omg, i get cramps in my hand only from looking at this "magic" mouse.biggrin.gif

Other than that, your chair might be too high(bad angle for wrist) or too low(too much pressure on your forearm cutting the blood off, even worse when the table has a sharp edge/no curved end wink.gif)

If you have a sharp edge on ur table you could lay this thick "qck heavy" mousepad by turning it 90° over the edge.
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post #12 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thuNDa View Post

omg, i get cramps in my hand only from looking at this "magic" mouse.biggrin.gif
Other than that, your chair might be too high(bad angle for wrist) or too low(too much pressure on your forearm cutting the blood off, even worse when the table has a sharp edge/no curved end wink.gif)
If you have a sharp edge on ur table you could lay this thick "qck heavy" mousepad by turning it 90° over the edge.
Haha, it actually doesn't hurt. It feels weird to hold, but you get used to it if you push through. It's useful in Mac OS X but not so much in WIndows 7.

I think it may be too low then, because I do feel a fair amount of pressure on my elbow which sits right at the curved edge. My wrist is almost flat on the Magic Mouse.
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post #13 of 32
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the replies. I've found out it's actually my ulnar nerve, so I'm probably going to go to physio and see if I can loosen up my back/neck which I think is compressing it. (It's still numb.)

Will probably shop for a good gaming and mousepad in a week or two once it's better. Using the Magic Mouse (in Windows) for games, is horrible.
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post #14 of 32
Does pressing the mouse buttons cause problems for you?
post #15 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalal View Post

Does pressing the mouse buttons cause problems for you?
I don't think so.
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post #16 of 32
If you can at all do wired, you probably ought to. Lighter mouse + better selection = fewer hand problems. Personally i'd recommend the ergonomically shaped Naos 3200 (at 800 DPI - I play at 1600 DPI but micro motions are also to be avoided). Myself and a few other people on this forum have mentioned its the most comfortable mouse for long-term use we've ever had.

Personally, I don't like logitechs because of the giant hump many of them have.

One more possible adjustment to try is to scoot your chair farther under your desk and place much of your forearm on the table as is comfortable - the idea being the weight of your arm is supported by your arm rather than wrist.

As for neck/back problems, I only get those when I'm leaning forward just a bit and am partially supporting myself with my mouse hand. Since I never do that with my keyboard hand, I develop a lean unless I watch out (right shoulder higher than left, since it is being pushed up while the left droops). Do that for a day without noticing and my upper back feels funky. Keep proper posture = no problem. For an exaggerated version of this problem to try and see if it might be affecting you, keep your hand on your mouse while leaning on your left elbow.
Edited by MisterFred - 1/22/12 at 7:48am
    
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post #17 of 32
I had this problem BAD. I got a pad that had one of those gel filled wrist pads at the bottom of it. Problem gone.

It's the same thing that causes carpal tunnel. The nerve runs through a small tunnel between all those little wrist bones. Holding your hand in the incorrect position while moving the mouse around compresses the jones into the tunnel, which in turn compresses the nerve.
Edited by ramkatral - 1/22/12 at 7:53am
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post #18 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

If you can at all do wired, you probably ought to. Lighter mouse + better selection = fewer hand problems. Personally i'd recommend the ergonomically shaped Naos 3200 (at 800 DPI - I play at 1600 DPI but micro motions are also to be avoided). Myself and a few other people on this forum have mentioned its the most comfortable mouse for long-term use we've ever had.
Personally, I don't like logitechs because of the giant hump many of them have.
One more possible adjustment to try is to scoot your chair farther under your desk and place much of your forearm on the table as is comfortable - the idea being the weight of your arm is supported by your arm rather than wrist.
As for neck/back problems, I only get those when I'm leaning forward just a bit and am partially supporting myself with my mouse hand. Since I never do that with my keyboard hand, I develop a lean unless I watch out (right shoulder higher than left, since it is being pushed up while the left droops). Do that for a day without noticing and my upper back feels funky. Keep proper posture = no problem. For an exaggerated version of this problem to try and see if it might be affecting you, keep your hand on your mouse while leaning on your left elbow.

Could you elaborate what micro motions can cause or what's wrong with doing them? I'm asking because I'm more of a mid to high sens user (in games I need to be able to do 180 degree turns with a flick of my hand or I'm getting mad when I can't react fast enough when somebody is shooting me from behind because I have to lift and reposition the mouse).



From a lot of mice I have used I've come to prefer mice that let me touch them with my fingers (fingertip grip) and have some space between them and my hand, but not too much so I can still control it a little with my palm when needed. So I like that natural feeling without the mouse forcing me into a certain position. These ergonomic mice often feel comfortable, because there's a lot of contact surface between hand and mouse, which makes it feel like a "glove". But just because the mouse feels that way, it doesn't mean that it gives an optimal hand/finger posture or lets you control it with as much precision as possible.

Take the Deathadder for example. If you don't have too small hands it feels really comfortable at first, because there's a lot of surface contact to your hand. But if you look a little closer its design is quite flawed in my opinion. The first thing to notice is that you automatically rotate it a little to the left. This is because of 2 reasons I can think off: First off you want your thumb to be in the middle of the mouse just below both side buttons and not somewhere at the back. But you can't really do that unless you have a very long thumb and stretch it. The second thing is that when you hold the mouse in a straight position, the side of your ring finger will be pressed onto the side of the mouse because of the fairly large distance between the middle and ring finger, which feels really uncomfortable. And as you know your fingers don't have much motion radius to the sides. In order to compensate for this, your hand automatically rotates the mouse in which case you suddenly touch the side of the mouse more with the bottom of your ring finger.

So by rotating the DA a little, which I've seen a lot of people doing automatically, it's fairly comfortable. But with this come some problems like you'll also rotate the sensor a little and therefore the tracking will be a little off. The other thing is that I can't keep my fingers straight on the mouse buttons anymore. The middle finger touches more the right side of the right MB and the pointing finger is not centered on the left MB but directly next to the scroll wheel... and I actually even have to force it a little (unconsciously though) to stay on the left MB.

But that's not all. By rotating the mouse a little and generally because of the tilted shape of it (and a lot of ergonomic mice have that in common) the weight of your hand is also more positioned to the right of the mouse. This can result in unintentionally hitting the right MB.

What also sucks with the DA is the |___\ shape. It's not the lightest mouse and while the straight left side is OK for your thumb you really have to put a lot of pressure on your pinkie in order for the mouse not to slip out of your hand when lifting it.

Therefore while the DA does seem ergonomic it in fact really isn't.



So what do I consider to be perfect? Well the Xai and WMO shapes are pretty close. They have a slight \__/ shape, which makes lifting effortless even with just minimal amount of force used to squeeze the mouse. By keeping both the middle and the ring finger on the right MB, these mice stay straight in your hand without much rotation in any direction. You can claw, fingertip and palm grip them, which of course is also depending on hand and mouse size (Xai/Sensei > Kinzu). So if you have big hands you might have troubles with palming the Kinzu wink.gif. It's also cool that even when you're palming these mice you're actually only touching the mouse with your palm and your fingertips, which keeps the air flowing a little and is also much better when you're sweating. The next thing is that it feels very natural, there are no edges or any other things that might get in the way. Once you have it in your hand you just forget about it, which in my opinion is what makes a perfect mouse shape.

How would that be even better so I'd call it perfect? First maybe just a little more degrees on that \__/ shape might make it even easier to lift (needs to be tested of course). The second thing I can think of to improve it (although not making it ambidextrous anymore), would be to slightly tilt only the right MB a little (like on the Razer Imperator) but keep the rest of the mouse straight and not tilted. It should really only affect the fingertips and not the whole hand. This would make it a little more natural.




Oh and because I was mentioning the Imperator here is why I also prefer the Xai/WMO shapes even over this ergonomic mouse after using it some days now. First off it's heavy and it doesn't provide enough grip, so lifting isn't that easy and you have to squeeze the mouse pretty hard again, which after some time can become tiresome. The thumb mold seems comfortable at first but after some usage you'll realize that it can't compete with the simple, almost straight side of the Xai. When you hold the Imperator the left side of the thumb will actually rest on the edge on the bottom of the Imperator and when you lift it, the thumb will touch the edge of the side buttons. Not exactly comfortable. Also as I'm mainly a fingertip gripper, the size is great but my fingers tend to constantly slide forward until my palm is touching the mouse, resulting in a palm grip. I don't know why that is the case but it's annoying as it distracts me as to constantly check my grip on the mouse. Also it's not as comfortable for palm gripping compared to the Xai (believe it or not). The back is too rounded and feels a little awkward and it also slides around in my palm. On the Xai my palm stays firm in place and it also doesn't have that awkward "bump". With the Imperator I can also reach the end of the mouse buttons and touch the relatively sharp edges when I palm grip the mouse even though I have relatively small hands.

So here you have it... a big f****** text but I really felt like writing this, because it seems a lot of people judge the comfort level of a mouse with how many spots it has to put your individual fingers on and to how much contact surface it seems to provide to your hand in order to "feel like a glove".
post #19 of 32
When I'm talking about micro-movements its generally a problem for very high sensitivity users attempting high precision tasks. Moving your hand a centimeter is not a micro-motion. Moving your hand a fraction of a millimeter is. It doesn't have a ton to do with mouse shape or grip, although I would guess claw grippers might be a tad more susceptible too it (moving the mouse with shifts of the finger rather than moving the entire hand while the grip remains steady? I don't claw grip). Basically, if a small motion is still difficult, it's bad. Essentially the reason is that if you're trying hard to point the mouse exactly where it needs to be, your hand will generally tense up (and often stay tensed up). With a continuously tensed hand shifting ever so slightly very often, it's a recipe for repetitive stress syndromes.

I'm not the most eloquent person, so I'll use the example I like best: minesweeper. Take a gaming mouse, set it to some ridiculously high DPI (let's say 5000 - 3200 is enough for me to notice) and try to play minesweeper on the large board. For most people, it's really freaking hard. They'll keep over-shooting or under-shooting boxes because fine muscle control is quite hard. To compensate, most people will instinctively grip their mouse harder and keep it gripped very hard whenever they move the mouse. Eventually you realize you've been white-knuckle gripping the mouse the entire game of minesweeper and your hand is really tired. Much more tired, in fact, than if you used a lower DPI and moved the mouse far more in total difference, but in a more relaxed manner. That's an extreme example, but it illustrates the concept well.

On the other end of the spectrum, set the DPI as low as it can go and even the windows sensitivity down. Big, sweeping gestures are needed to get the cursor from one end of the computer screen to the other, but stopping on any one individual pixel (or minesweeper box) is, relatively, much easier. And even if your arm is working harder, your hand is much more relaxed.

So if you're trying out various DPI settings, I'd recommend playing minesweeper for half an hour or so (when its feeling healthy, don't stress it if its not, lol, get off the computer) and seeing if your hand gets tired. If it does, the sensitivity (or, I suppose, mouse shape) is too high. Dial down the DPI, try again a few hours later, and your hand will probably feel much less tired.

For me, my hand tires a tiny bit at 1600 DPI. But 800 just feels too dang slow, and since I don't log extreme hours in games anymore, I'm comfortable where I'm at. I can't give any mouse recommendations out for folks like you, really, because I don't lift my mice in a gaming setting.

If you lift your mouse a lot (generally lower DPI), this probably isn't an issue., but don't worry, there's plenty of other ways to screw up and develop problems smile.gif.
Edited by MisterFred - 1/22/12 at 11:52am
    
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post #20 of 32
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone for your help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterFred View Post

If you can at all do wired, you probably ought to. Lighter mouse + better selection = fewer hand problems. Personally i'd recommend the ergonomically shaped Naos 3200 (at 800 DPI - I play at 1600 DPI but micro motions are also to be avoided). Myself and a few other people on this forum have mentioned its the most comfortable mouse for long-term use we've ever had.
Personally, I don't like logitechs because of the giant hump many of them have.
One more possible adjustment to try is to scoot your chair farther under your desk and place much of your forearm on the table as is comfortable - the idea being the weight of your arm is supported by your arm rather than wrist.
As for neck/back problems, I only get those when I'm leaning forward just a bit and am partially supporting myself with my mouse hand. Since I never do that with my keyboard hand, I develop a lean unless I watch out (right shoulder higher than left, since it is being pushed up while the left droops). Do that for a day without noticing and my upper back feels funky. Keep proper posture = no problem. For an exaggerated version of this problem to try and see if it might be affecting you, keep your hand on your mouse while leaning on your left elbow.
I see. I guess I'll have to go with a wired mouse then, you make a good point. I'll keep that mouse in mind thanks. I'll try keeping the chair under the desk more, and keeping my posture right which is something I normally try to do but have let slip lately. Thanks for your help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramkatral View Post

I had this problem BAD. I got a pad that had one of those gel filled wrist pads at the bottom of it. Problem gone.
It's the same thing that causes carpal tunnel. The nerve runs through a small tunnel between all those little wrist bones. Holding your hand in the incorrect position while moving the mouse around compresses the jones into the tunnel, which in turn compresses the nerve.
Thanks for the info! I might grab one of those.

>>>>>

I'm seeing the Physio today so hopefully I'll have some kind of solution. I'm thinking it's got something to do with my back/shoulder tightening up too -- that never helps anything.

I'm curious: what DPI is a normal mouse? The Magic Mouse for example?
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