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Help determining why water flow has steadily decreased by 12% since finishing the build? - Page 2

post #11 of 31
I'd drain the loop and check the blocks for debris.
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post #12 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishV8 View Post

i thought the non-variable pump was set to 4.
after looking at swift techs site p4 is the highest setting the MCP655-b will do so it will be slower than the MCP655 with speed controller that can be set to p5

I had read that both are the same speed when the variable is at 5, but I guess I either read incorrect info, or was reading about another manufacturer's pump?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanstasiu View Post

If your PSU is whining, then you DO have a problem.
The reason is that when your computer starts up, the fans and HDD use considerably more power (5W idle, 30W startup, for example).
Its not only the wattage used by your PSU, but the watts most likely.
Some fans use 5W...
So 14 x 30 + 8 x 30 = 660W for just HDD+Fans.
Then your CPU, GPU, 2 pumps also draw their own power. And motherboard.
Try getting a kW reading RIGHT as your computer starts up. Just to give us an idea.
I could only see your pump dying as the last possible option...

I will shut down and restart tonight and see what the kw reading is. The fans say 7v start-up, but I don't know the amps, so i have no idea what the wattage is. I see your point though. I do see that windows has a staggered startup setting for the drives. I never imagined I would need more than a 1000w PSU for anything, including startup. I tend to think in terms of amps when I think of power though and the amp requirement is low, while the PSU amp availability is high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPARC_PWR View Post

I'm betting that you have a growth problem in your loop or debris from the manufacturing process. What did you use to flush the components? I've seen systems with flushed components and only distilled have buildup within 72 hours that effected the temperatures in the system and by 96 hours were clogging blocks up. The safe thing to do is break the loop down and inspect each part. It will only take a few hours and give you peace of mind that everything is okay.

I flushed the rad with a pretty high pressure hose attached to a utility sink and shook it pretty well in between. It was also flushed with about 4 gallons of distilled water. while attached to the loop during drains between changes. The temp of the loop has been low, not higher than 25C. I could have missed something though.

I shut down the system completely earlier today removed power made sure there were no real tight bends and wiggled things around a bit. I rechecked that the fittings and tubing was secure. powered back on and adjusted the speed up and down and back up on the variable pump to ensure that I could see instant changes in the flow rate, which I did. Interestingly, when i started up I was at 292LPH for about 60 seconds and down to 282 - 285 after that, which is where the reading remains. I'll see if it starts to drop again. If so, some sort of debris would make sense.
    
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post #13 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanstasiu View Post

If your PSU is whining, then you DO have a problem.
The reason is that when your computer starts up, the fans and HDD use considerably more power (5W idle, 30W startup, for example).
Its not only the wattage used by your PSU, but the watts most likely.
Some fans use 5W...
So 14 x 30 + 8 x 30 = 660W for just HDD+Fans.
Then your CPU, GPU, 2 pumps also draw their own power. And motherboard.
Try getting a kW reading RIGHT as your computer starts up. Just to give us an idea.
I could only see your pump dying as the last possible option...

Well, the UPS was showing the peak output during start up was 0.252 kw, which seems ridiculously low. After that it peaked a few more times around 0.245 - 0.250 and hangs around 0.207 the majority of the time. I just started the IBT running on all 6 cores at the very high setting (only using 4096MB RAM) and I immediately saw the kw output of hte UPS jump to 0.342 from 0.207 and it has settled back to 0.305-0.307 after a few minutes.

I do notice that I don't seem to be hearing that high pitch whine after more firmly connecting a fairly loose pump molex connector to molex power connector, but that may be purely coincidence, as the only time all the hard drives are spinning simultaneously at a noticeable level are when they are all re-syncing simultaneously, such as after a failed boot attempt. I cannot seem to duplicate this, so I cant monitor it.

Pump is still hanging at 284-287LPH for the time being.

What do you think about the power output reading? The UPS is supposed to be a pretty good one and has solid reviews, but those numbers just seem very low, unless the amp draw is so low that the total volts dont add up to many watts.
    
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post #14 of 31
If the hard-drives have a staggered start (which they should) then I don't see why it would improve the peak startup wattage.
All in all it seems good.

When you say your pump is hanging at 284-287..is that good or bad? Whats the pump's default flow rate?
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post #15 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmanstasiu View Post

If the hard-drives have a staggered start (which they should) then I don't see why it would improve the peak startup wattage.
All in all it seems good.
When you say your pump is hanging at 284-287..is that good or bad? Whats the pump's default flow rate?

That's 1.25GPM, he's ok on flow. I wouldn't worry too much until you hit under 1GPM (227LPH).
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post #16 of 31
Thread Starter 
Last night I was down to 282-283 LPH and today its 275-278 LPH. I guess I have a problem and a blockage would make sense. I'm assuming the most likely places to start looking would be the lowest points in the loop, which are the pumps? I can take them apart tonight.
    
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post #17 of 31
Thread Starter 
Well I spent a few hours rebuilding my loop, identically, a few different ways and I feel like Im in the damn twilight zone.

I took everything apart and checked for clogs. i didnt see anything, althuogh I did see a bit of teflon tape that was showing through into the inside of the joints of the fittings, that I thought *might* possibly have something to do with the slow down. I retaped the fittings put everything back together identically to how it was and started the system. My flow was now DOWN from the 270s to the 250s!! I then saw a little bit of water dripping from the intake of the first pump and figured I was losing water pressure due a not quite closed loop. I tightened that up and flushed the system again with 2 gallons of distilled. I was now up to the 260s...but no 270s to be had frown.gif Certainly, nothing in the 280s to 290s.

I decided to change the output of the reservoirs to see if that helped. Instead of some two outputs with a few inchines of tubing into a Y connector at the pump inlet, I used a T block to make one output into one piece of tubing straight into the first pump intake. This was a much different initial result. I was back up to my original speeds around 310 LPH for about 30 seconds, then 205, 295, 285, 275. Then I noticed water dribbling out of one of the EK reservoirs. turns out screwing in the joined T connector, I stripped one of the outputs of the EK. It was toast, no amount of teflon tape helped.

So, I switched to a single reservoir, flushed the system with another 2 gallons of distilled water and changed the line into the rest from a Y connector, to a single tube in. I was interested to see how this would effect my flow rate, i figured it would up the pressure quite a bit and up the speed a tiny bit. Well the pressure into the res definitely seems much higher, since its not be split from 1 1/2" ID tube into 2. The speed started quite high at 325 LPH, but within about 10 minutes was down to 275 LPH. When I came into the office this morning it was now down to 252 LPH!!!!

I really don't know what else to do at this point. out of curiosity, I've run the IBT using 27GB of RAM on all threads for the last 3 hours and my CPU core and package temps are 1 degree and 2 degrees higher respectively than my previous test, which may be too small to be an indicator of difference in water speed / pressure. CPU core temps (at stock) is between 43 and 46 depending on the core, while package temp is 50.

I dont like running on a single res as its pretty loud frown.gif
    
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post #18 of 31
^Yikes, i feel your pain helpinghand.gif

Too bad you don't have two flow sensors so you could rule out some kind of faulty reading. Seems like you have just about ruled out everything else redface.gif
post #19 of 31
Thread Starter 
EDIT: nevermind. It wasnt a bad cable, I plugged the wrong sensor cable in after I did my reset. Well at least my flow seems to consistently suck at 250 LPH. Sadly, after I first did this build a few weeks back now, my flow with a single pump was 225, now its 169 LPH. I guess i need to figure out how great the flow is restricted by each inch of tubing and theoretically, how greatly a bend at 15, 30, 45, etc degrees would impact flow.

Any idea of where to find, or how to calculate this information?
Edited by jc1234 - 1/24/12 at 4:21pm
    
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post #20 of 31
Try this: http://martinsliquidlab.org/pump-and-radiator-optimizer-spreadsheet/
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