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Dual pump - Page 2

post #11 of 18
A couple of points;

1. Pressure is not important, it does not change the heat transfer rate at all over the range we are using. Flow rate is important, but that is the same throughout the loop (assuming all in serial). There is no need to put the pump before a block to increase the pressure in the block, it won't change anything.

2. Pump heat dump is tiny. Even 50W (a lot for a pump) will only raise the water by 0.2°C at 1GPM.
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post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

It's a LOOP people.
Meaning that the pump will always be BOTH before and after the rez, think about it!
However it would be easier to fill the loop if there is a pump close after the rez.

Hi from OCers.com biggrin.gif

I am wondering if there is a real difference if you don't directly put the pumps together?

In the review they just say the flow scale very well with the pumps in serie but they don't mention what happen if you put something between them.

Imagine a loop like this:

Res-pump-rad(2x320)-cpu-pump-rad(480)-2xgpu
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post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a nickname View Post

I am wondering if there is a real difference if you don't directly put the pumps together?

No, there is no difference.
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post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

It's a LOOP people.
Meaning that the pump will always be BOTH before and after the rez, think about it!
However it would be easier to fill the loop if there is a pump close after the rez.

Put a pump directly before a reservoir and watch what happens. The res will fill with fill with water until the pressure in the res can force the water through the rest of the loop. There will be a massive pressure loss after the reservoir, severely hurting the flow and cooling, especially with large reservoirs.
 
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post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleal View Post

No, there is no difference.

There is a realy difference. It's been proven several times and even documented over at Martin's Lab. Those findings have been posted here in the WCing forums and referenced so many times. Having two pumps in series one right after the other works best.

Placing a RAD in the loop between the pumps causes turbulent flow. This type of flow slows down the flow. The second pump has to make up some of the difference, but never gets that boost if it was in series one right after the other.
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post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaverick View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleal View Post

No, there is no difference.

There is a realy difference. It's been proven several times and even documented over at Martin's Lab. Those findings have been posted here in the WCing forums and referenced so many times. Having two pumps in series one right after the other works best.

Placing a RAD in the loop between the pumps causes turbulent flow. This type of flow slows down the flow. The second pump has to make up some of the difference, but never gets that boost if it was in series one right after the other.

Very true
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post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaverick View Post

There is a realy difference. It's been proven several times and even documented over at Martin's Lab. Those findings have been posted here in the WCing forums and referenced so many times. Having two pumps in series one right after the other works best.
Placing a RAD in the loop between the pumps causes turbulent flow. This type of flow slows down the flow. The second pump has to make up some of the difference, but never gets that boost if it was in series one right after the other.

Which article of Martin's documents this, and where is the proof you mention?
In Martins article on series vs parallel pumps, he states: "You can also place the two pumps pretty much anywhere within the loop as long as you’re careful about not running either pump dry when filling. Folks that want to place the second pump further away from the first that has a reservoir or T-line, should probably leave that second pump disconnected while filling (avoid running dry)."
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/04/26/pump-setup-series-vs-parallel/2/
He makes no mention anywhere in the article as to the performance of having them piped together, or plumbed into different parts of the loop.

In a closed loop, the head pressure from each pump is additive, as is the pressure drop of each component in the loop.
Total available head pressure from the pumps - total pressure drop of the loop = available pressure to push water around.
Regardless of where they are physically located in the loop, the total pressure pushing water around the loop is the same.
4+4-2-2-2=2 the same as 4-2+4-2-2=2

And yes, turbulent flow at the pump inlet can be a bad thing, but I find it unlikely that the flow would be any less turbulent between the outlet of one pump and the inlet of another pump that are piped together....

The only real reason to pipe series pumps together is installation convenience.

If you have any links to testing that proves otherwise, I'll happily own up to being wrong.
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post #18 of 18
Finally a voice of reason.
Martin explains that the added flow of a second pump will add to the cooling but the added cooling from increased flow/pressure will be countered by the added heat of a second pump.
Its a CLOSED LOOP so it doesn't matter where you put your stuff in the loop, so long as you don't let your pump run dry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybutcher View Post

Put a pump directly before a reservoir and watch what happens. The res will fill with fill with water until the pressure in the res can force the water through the rest of the loop. There will be a massive pressure loss after the reservoir, severely hurting the flow and cooling, especially with large reservoirs.

What you are describing only applies to an open loop (i.e.: res cap off). In a closed loop the pump both pulls from the res at one end and pushes to the res at the other end.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 1/26/12 at 7:10pm
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