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final steps

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
(sorry if post gets lenghty with prod-names)
Ok, so I've decided to go for a "ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe AiLifestyle Series" which goes up to PC2-6400. This I assume is only on the as-delivered BIOS, and upgradable to above 6400 in later flashes ... it isn't obvious at asus hp though. I see a new flash available, but not what it updates
I considered the "republic of gamers" as well as the "main station" series, but I can't really see the big diff. between any of those, exept for wireless and non-wireless editions and various microphones'n'stuff, but if someone have a clear recomendation on one opposed to another then please shout
In either way the first issue is concerning the RAM:
First I thought of 2x1GB "OCZ Enhanced Latency Platinum SLI-Ready Edition Dual Channel" (OCZ2N9002GK), CL4-RAM with preset bootup at 4-4-3 timing. those are PC2-7200.
Another choice could be 2x1GB "Corsair XMS2 Xtreme Performance TwinX Matched" (TWIN2X2048-6400C3) reported to handle 3-4-3-9, and obviously CL3 PC2-6400 ... and quite a grab in the pocket more expensive
The system is qoing to be OC'ed, but propably not more than you here would call a (big) push because of cold-bug issue and what not.
but which of those two is "the money melon". What are timings vs. freqencies.?
I'm not quite sure either on the FX-62 vs. 64 x2 5000+, but isn't the FX-62 "just" a factory overclocked where the 5000+ is "clean", or what the expression is. So 5000+ is likely to get a higher final result? And under ½ the price Or is it in fact the other way around if anything?

A kinda ot question is whether it's overkill to invest in a UPS. I've been taken in a bit by a Belkin sales pitch of provding the units behind the UPS with a pure AC sine wave, which is just pure honey for all the electronics and pumps.
And as the system is going to be OC'ed I fell for the claim, that this pure sine wave helps on stability and lifetime of components. It's not too expensive either, but is it an investment or an expence? Are the stabilty/lifetime claims (f)actual and worth it.
post #2 of 11
Typically a little looser timings with a higher frequency will yield better results in most applications. Other applications like SuperPi might perform better with a little tighter timings with a little lower frequency. As a general rule higher frequency with looser timings is > lower frequency with tighter timings.

What is this cold-bug you speak of? Some steppings of processors are cold-bugged with vapochill systems and such, but their are more steppings that perform well with the sub-zero temps. I have not really heard about AM2 cpu's being cold-bugged, but if the architecture is similar to the E6's produced more recently for the socket 939 than the likelihood is greater. Problem is you really won't know until you try.

I would invest in the X2 5000+ and leave the FX-62 on the shelf. The big advantage of the FX series is the multiplier is not limited by a ceiling of 10, 11, 12, etc. This is only an advantage in extreme overclocking scenerios because you can get motherboards that can handle FSB/HT near 400. In addition the FX-60 and FX-62 have not shown anywhere near the overclocking potential of past FX's. In a way you are right, the FX-62 and the 5000+ are likely to end up with the same frequency with overclocking considered.
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post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricmix
... Other applications like SuperPi might perform better with a little tighter timings with a little lower frequency.
I don't even know what that program is, but it sound like pure benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricmix
What is this cold-bug you speak of? Som.......et 939 than the likelihood is greater. Problem is you really won't know until you try.
Well that's the bug I'm talking about My 'mission' at start was simply a subzero and then ofcourse some tweaking ... but then I hit a wall of AMD subzero issues. I was hoping though, that the issues were if not resolved, then less frequent on AM2 than elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricmix
... In a way you are right, the FX-62 and the 5000+ are likely to end up with the same frequency with overclocking considered.
think I'll just do that then. No reason a using close to $500 differnce on something that'll very likely not be worth it. That's kinda the dilemma I'm in concerning that UPS thing It's not like I suffer from regular blackouts .. er, I mean powerouts
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
actually ... being noobish I have to ask: this means that all three mentioned MB are potential to have FX OC rewarded, when they are performing at up to 1000MHz, which in AMD is 500, right? Hypothetically
post #5 of 11
Quite honestly if you are looking at the 5000+ and you are going to be overclocking you might want to look at this X2 4000+ as an alternative to the 5000+. It will clock just as high if not higher and it has 2x1MB of L2Cache where the 5000+ only has 2x512KB. There extra L2Cache not only increases performance in general it also gives your cpu some additional legs as far as overclocking goes. I am not sure how much it will cost there as opposed to the 5000+, but here it goes from $500 USD for the 5000+ to around $200 for the 4000+.

I think you are refering to the FSB of the processor and every processor I know of in the AMD line is a base of a 200MHz FSB. You may be right with the 500, but I honestly do not know because motherboards allow around a 400MHz at most, and you will not likely get that with an Asus. Asus are usually good from around 300 to 350MHz FSB, and are known for their stability rather than their overclocking potential.
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post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Yer, it was because of the 2MB I mentioned the FX62 'again', 'cause I understood the case to be as you say; more L2 = more speed/stabilty.
But in fact, which is kinda funky, I have to pay roughly $50 more for 2MB 4000+ than the 5000+ .... gues it shows the value of the higher L2, or simply that we pay to much on this side of the waters
I'm going to give it a try, but after learning about HTT/cold-bug I've re-evaluated the subzero wishes as there's high likelyhood the CPU will be bugged as far as I understand, though as you say I haven't found much on bugged AM2's .. but purhaps they're just not 'out there' in adequate numbers to say anything for statistics?
But actually I thought FSB = HTT ... directly from asus : "It features 2000/1600 MT/s HyperTransport Bus" .. what does that then mean in this context? They also boast that the three mentioned models, particularly the "Main station", are with clockablity in mind as well, with some intelli-stuff for optimal RAM-performance. [edit]"Main station" at asus[/edit]

But the subzero re-evaluation ammounts to wanting a stable, but still high(er) performance system.
The plan still is to mount a peltier, but control it's efficiency according to possible bugs. As far as I can see, a 80W peltier should be controlable with a unit like those from mcubed. Either as intended, on the CPU, or as a sort of homemade chiller. Seen'em used like that here and there.
But if I can actually still get a subzero, then swell But this in mind the FX62 might actually be the one with highest potential? Given that I can control the temp with the "T-Balancer" as they call it. And that the graph with buggy settings as a function of temp/HTT I posted elsewhere is generally reliable.
300-350 FSB is still a decent enough tweak if/when I can't get subzero though A steady temp of say 20deg.C nomatter load, on a +2.6 GHz system, is still kinda neat
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
one could also go for the 4k 2MB L2, and use the money saved in diff. up to FX62 on a pair of the new Corsair Dominator ... gd they're pricy, but 1111Mz
post #8 of 11
I looked up the cost of a 4000 (with the 2x1MB L2) and on ZipZoomFly the price was $200. And yes, its a real kicker. If you can't get it for less than $500, you need to get some new sources.

There does not seem to be a lot of difference in the AM2 X2s with regard to OCing. Pretty much they will all end up at about the same top speed within a small margin. Yes, the 5000 or FX-62 are likely to get a bit more gigahurts (maybe 3100 to 3200) than the 3800 or 4000 (maybe 2600 to 3000) but the cost differential is way, way, way bigger. So, if OCing is your game, you might as well start low, unless, of course, you just want the absolute fastest.

I'd do as your last post suggests, go with the cheaper CPU and spend the savings on better memory.

As for the boards, I would suggest the M2N32 SLI. The WS version is a professional workstation, its aimed at folks that use a lot of PCI-X expansion cards. Its definitely not aimed at the OCing/gaming crowd. The "Republic of Gamers" Crosshair is pretty well self explanatory. If you are a LAN Ogre, its definitely your board of choice as it will intimidate and awe all the other LAN Gamers with its glitter and glitz. It is the opposite end of the spectrum from the WS Professional. In the middle is the M2N32 SLI. Good performer, plenty of features, lots of flexibility.

However, if you are primarily interested in OCing, pure and simple, I would also give the Foxconn or DFI offerings a look.

I didn't choose either of those, I went with the Asus M2N32 SLI. For the most part, and probably more so than any other socket to date, the chipset is primarily the control. Any board with a 590 chipset is going to perform about the same. The big differences are in how the manufacturer implimented the BIOS and what options/settings they included/excluded. As far as I can tell, most all included nearly everything, certainly a lot more than I know what to do with.

A very good resource is nVidia's "User Guide to nVidia nForce 590 SLI Technology Chipset Overclocking" available for download off the nVidia website. I promise it will blow your mind. Provides good information on OCing graphics cards as well. And please do remember, this was written by the folks that designed and built the 590 chipset, so, yes, they do know what they are writing about, substantially more so than anybody else. Unfortunately for us M2N32SLIers they used the Foxconn C51XEM2AA motherboard so you have to do some translation of terminology but otherwise its gold. I believe they chose that board because at the time it was the only board available but I may be wrong about that. Do check the date of issue, it gives one pause if you think of the ramifications. It was written in May 2005 (not 2006) although the initial release was dated May 17, 2006. Very interesting, very interesting indeed!

Have fun and whatever you end up with, let us all know how it goes.
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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
What can I say but thanks a heap for feedback, but actually I've moved the thread into Intel. I -why not before- became aware of the nearly 100% diff. in 'thermal design power', thus overall powerconsumption ... or boiled down: higher electricity bill
The possible issues on subzero AMD, the present speeds compared, and the electricity concerns, put together, I think I'll have to surrender
post #10 of 11
Not a bad decision at all. The Core Duo's are king right now, but I am going to wait and see what this new AMD architecture is going to yield for results before I make a decision or jump ship on AMD. People are gaining incredible overclocks with Core Duo's on air and I have not seen any miraculous increases with the use of water or vapo cooling system. Good luck, and I am glad you are thinking things through completely.
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