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post #51 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by psyclum View Post

the computer market operates with the ATX standard and within that standard, the PCIe slots are oriented so they face down rather then up.

I don't see how the pci slots dictate which side of the board to place the gpu on. my sound card has its processor facing up. redacted for niceness.
Edited by Otterclock - 3/19/12 at 9:59am
    
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post #52 of 61
To be fair, ATX form factor was created in 1995 by Intel. Some video cards did not even have heatsinks on them. The ones that did have heatsink were only the size of a ramsink.

280

Power and heat were much lower back then. It is actually amazing we still use ATX after all these years considering we now have 1500W PSUs and power hungry graphics cards and CPUs.
post #53 of 61
The ATX PC case design is actual quite good as far as heat rise being removed by the PSU fan. If there was a significant need to change the mobo layout then it would happen but it would cost more to make a new board design and limit it's applications, which would increase cost even further.

It's not a matter of a good engineer thinking outside the box, it's the lack of need except for folks looking to run three or more GPUs or H2O / phase change cooling on a GPU or something unusual, which is a very limited market. Anything is possible if your pockets are deep enough.
post #54 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post

To be fair, ATX form factor was created in 1995 by Intel. Some video cards did not even have heatsinks on them. The ones that did have heatsink were only the size of a ramsink.
280
Power and heat were much lower back then. It is actually amazing we still use ATX after all these years considering we now have 1500W PSUs and power hungry graphics cards and CPUs.

indeed.

I think they did try and buck the trend with the BTX form factor, where it was (if memory serves) intake fan to CPU to vidcard to exhaust fan.

motherboard.jpg

But one day, they just ceased to exist.
Edited by Captain Mayhem - 1/25/12 at 7:58pm
    
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post #55 of 61
btx is a better design, however due to the enormity of outstanding atx support, the btx design never caught on(not to mention intel wanting royalty for the btx standard)

currently btx survive only in the server/workstation market.
post #56 of 61
I don't think anyone but Intel liked BTX and that's why most companies refused to build them. If Intel didn't produce flame throwing P4 CPUs back then, there was really no need for the BTX design... as history has shown.
post #57 of 61
actually btx was ahead of its time. intel predicted the path of power usage and designed btx to handle high heat levels. the primary problem is as i mentioned, the people who are upgrading their machines have other ATX parts they wanted to use from their old machines. so they bought ATX cases for them. and when they switched mobo's, they bought ATX boards because their case was ATX. it's a vicious cycle of one feeding the other.

BTX survived in the server market because servers were always power hungry and it was a natural evolution for it to take on. not too much concern about reusing a server case since you are already paying $10,000+ for a machine:D besides due to the validation for servers, there are very few home brew servers that saw action in commercial market. it's much easier for intel to push the btx form factor onto dell, hp, compaq, etc... then the consumer market. after all, the engineers building the servers see the benefits of the btx and accepted that design.

in the evolution of PC's, if BTX had taken hold of the the market, then the proliferation of liquid cooling may not have been as drastic. as it stands, the movement towards liquid cooling is a direct result of the limitations of the ATX form factor in supplying sufficient cooling to the system.
post #58 of 61
There is no need for H2O cooling for typical desktop users. It's just a choice for those enthusiasts who want to tinker. Many of the quality HSFs out-perform the entire CLC line-up. More expensive open H2O systems are purely for enjoyment and aren't needed even by the fastest CPUs.

If desktop consumers felt a need for BTX then there would be demand, which there isn't. Obviously with servers and multiple CPUs there is more heat to deal with. That's one of the reasons why AMD CPUs have been favored for years in servers as they consume less power, deliver excellent thermal and system performance and a lower TCO.
post #59 of 61
The more I read about the in-computer application of "heat pipe" and "vapor chamber" systems the more I think that the designers of the heatsinks themselves have no idea how physics works.

There is no amount of capillary action that is going to return a liquid UPWARDS at a rate faster than the radiant heat of its environment will immediately evaporate it. Just won't happen.
So on the "silver arrow" sink for example in an upright case, the entire lower radiator assembly is nothing more than a cache area for the liquid to pool while the rest of the sink operates on its thermal conductivity alone.

Every graphics card I've seen with a "vapor chamber" has the heat source at the top and the condenser at the bottom. If homes were heated by boiler systems set up this way they'd have a lot of attic fires trying to keep the radiators from cracking from frozen water. They even seem to think that the heat-pipe systems work better than solid conductive surfaces.

My _stock_ AMD Phenom 2 heatsink is keeping a 100% loaded 1090T at 3.6 at 53 degrees. The Zalman 105 I had tried to use wouldn't keep it under 65 degrees even with the case laid down.
The stock phenom 2 heatsink? Copper plate and 1.5mm airgap soldered aluminum alloy fins with a 92mm fan (that doesn't even run full speed under load).

Why we're even bothering with all these ornate silly stupid gravity and capillary fed systems when high quality solid dissipation systems work better is beyond me.

And now we have compact little water systems. Could you imagine how effective a four inch diameter two inch deep thirty cc water loop system that mounts directly to the cpu socket would be?
Its about 2x as effective as heat-pipe vapor-chamber systems that weigh five times as much.
post #60 of 61
The stock Phenom heatsinks have heat-pipes in them. Just saying.
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