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post #201 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

So you really can't see that piracy is a way of speaking with your wallet?
LOL, no. Speaking with your wallet is making the conscious decision to not have something because you think the price is unfair. It doesn't justify stealing it just because you want it and don't want to pay for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Do you think that everyone that pirates is capable of paying for the material?
Not necessarily. But not being able to afford something--especially something that is a luxury item--does not mean you're entitled to steal it just because you can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Also, boycotts don't work in this day and age. People are content in paying what corporations and government want them to pay and really... how long would it take for people to hurt the bottom line of the biggest movie production studio in Hollywood with a boycott... months.. years?
Was a boycott ever enacted? The masses are still perfectly happy to pay the current prices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Piracy is doing a pretty good job of getting a reaction out of the fat cats.
No, it's not, not in the slightest. If anything, mass piracy has only accomplished an undesired and disproportionate push against general freedoms of the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

We can both agree on that.
No, we do not agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

So where's the change? I don't see movie tickets going down in price, and I know a lot of people who stopped going to movies simply based on the price. Think of middle class families. 16$ * 4 people + whatever fee for the 3d glasses + whatever snack your kids want = 100$, for a single 2 hour experience. Think of dad who gets about 1k a week. 10% of his weekly salary for a MOVIE.
If going to a movie costs 10% of someone's salary, then they are making poor financial decisions. And the reason why any noticeable reduction in movie prices hasn't occurred--in addition to arguments already presented above--is because the masses will still pay for it. If you're a fringe outlier, and think that movies are too expensive until they cost $3 at the theater, that's fine. The sheeple, on the other hand, are still happy to pay $16 to go and watch a movie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Your vision of the world is quite bleak; no one gets anything unless they pay for it. A movie is an idea. It's not a car or a hammer or gold. Intellectual properly is NOT physical property. Unless people make money with what they download, I sincerely don't believe that one should be punished for watching movies or listening to music.
It's the fact of the matter that we live in a world that relies on money, and it works fine for now. But you making the decision that something is not worth it to buy only means that you're not entitled to have it. Stealing it does not yield any positive effects or outcome.

Intellectual property still requires physical materials to bring them about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Tell me, what would you say to Jammie Thomas-Rasset while she's standing between a Bernard Madoff type and a serial rapist in jail (suppose she went to jail lol.) Would you say "you should've paid for your music? Now you're as good as a rapist? Come on...
I would say it's her own damn fault. She did not accidentally distribute copyrighted material. She made a choice, much like people who do choose to pay for the media they enjoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Again, prices are not coming down. If anything, they'll keep going up. The reason? Big bad pirates... There's no proof of what I said. I'm speaking from experience. I know a lot of people in their 40s and 50s who download movies and I know for a fact that they aren't running around selling pirate DVDs or making new movies based off the ones they've downloaded. I'm not trying to prove an 6GHz OC here... Theft is theft... yeah right. To a 14 year old kid it is.. To the rest of the world, it's a little more complicated.
Prices aren't coming down to your idea of what is fair--then so be it. It still doesn't entitle you to have access to the materials.

It always boils down to an issue of entitlement. You are perfectly accurate that certain forms of media seem expensive. In that case, you don't pay for it, but you also shouldn't be able to enjoy it. It doesn't make it okay to take it just because you want it. I want a multimillion dollar mansion packed full with cutting edge technologies, but I don't want to pay $100M to buy it. Why don't I just steal it, since I don't think it's worth it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Quote:
...the contemporary intent of copyright is to promote the creation of new works by giving authors control of and profit from them.
If I'm not creating content, why am I still subject to the same penalties as those that do create content?
EDIT: Guy, my argument is quite simple : although the law needs to be applied equally in most cases, it should not be applied equally in all cases. As much as you enjoy schooling people in economics and law, most don't wanna hear it. We know the laws that surround intellectual property. We just think that they're flawed and need to be amended. That or companies need to readjust to what their public wants and how they want it! Stop being so stubborn RIAA MPAA and the rest
Then you completely mis-understand the definition of equality.

edit--last thing came to mind There's a difference between making a protesting/boycott statement, and being cheap. Everything you've tried to use to explain away the situation paints you as the latter.
Edited by guyladouche - 1/24/12 at 3:30pm
    
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post #202 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telimektar View Post

Or maybe you could start paying for your content ? I know, completely crazy concept right ? rolleyes.gif

Because we're all thieving pirates right?

I've been using Megaupload to share movies that I've created over the years, rather then uploading them to Youtube and having them compressed to hell and back.

To be honest, this sounds like quite the witch hunt. rolleyes.gif
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post #203 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Punk_2.0 View Post

Because we're all thieving pirates right?
I've been using Megaupload to share movies that I've created over the years, rather then uploading them to Youtube and having them compressed to hell and back.
To be honest, this sounds like quite the witch hunt. rolleyes.gif

Declaring in...

/thread
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post #204 of 249
Is it just me, or are you stuck on the "stealing is bad" argument...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post

LOL, no. Speaking with your wallet is making the conscious decision to not have something because you think the price is unfair. It doesn't justify stealing it just because you want it and don't want to pay for it.
The result is the same. Again, you believe people pirate because they're bad people. People pirate because the material is just not worth the money charged. You said that in order to enact change, a boycott is the answer. I say that change has been enacted by piracy. That's a fact btw.
You keep referring to the masses. I strongly believe the masses download stuff because it's cheaper and it's easier and not because they're criminals, like the industry makes them out to be. Nothing more than scare tactics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche 
Not necessarily. But not being able to afford something--especially something that is a luxury item--does not mean you're entitled to steal it just because you can.
Movies, music, software... these are luxury items? You're comparing a mansion to a 16 dollar movie. A mansion costs a significant amount.I hate that argument. I doubt that if you stole a mansion while replacing it with a copy of the exact same mansion the owner would even notice. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche 
Was a boycott ever enacted? The masses are still perfectly happy to pay the current prices.
They're not. People are seeing less movies in theaters. I believe its because of high prices and poor content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche 
If going to a movie costs 10% of someone's salary, then they are making poor financial decisions.
And the reason why any noticeable reduction in movie prices hasn't occurred--in addition to arguments already presented above--is because the masses will still pay for it. If you're a fringe outlier, and think that movies are too expensive until they cost $3 at the theater, that's fine. The sheeple, on the other hand, are still happy to pay $16 to go and watch a movie.
When has ANY price reduction occurred? Why would you think that magically they would accept making less money now that the sheeple are used to paying a certain price? I don't see that happening. 1k a week is about 45k a year... bad financial decisions... How is that a bad financial decision when it's your salary? Damn I should have made more this year?? That makes no sense. The fact that you're fine with a middle class family paying 100$ for a movie is wild. It's not about being cheap, it's about drawing the line somewhere. Not being manipulated into constantly spending more etc etc.

Listen Guy the rest of your post is a little irrational and I didn't mean to hit any sensitive nerves but all I'm saying is that a casual downloader that isn't distributing the material doesn't deserve to be sued for millions or put in jail. I dunno... something like Drug possession vs Drug possession with intent to distribute...that kind of thing. Anyway, that's it
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post #205 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

The result is the same. Again, you believe people pirate because they're bad people. People pirate because the material is just not worth the money charged. You said that in order to enact change, a boycott is the answer. I say that change has been enacted by piracy. That's a fact btw.
You keep referring to the masses. I strongly believe the masses download stuff because it's cheaper and it's easier and not because they're criminals, like the industry makes them out to be. Nothing more than scare tactics.

The result isn't the same. You're fixated on the fact that either way, money isn't given to someone. You're missing the point of making an ethical statement that "your material isn't worth it, therefore I am not going to have it" You don't get how that's a much more powerful statement than stealing something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Movies, music, software... these are luxury items? You're comparing a mansion to a 16 dollar movie. A mansion costs a significant amount.I hate that argument. I doubt that if you stole a mansion while replacing it with a copy of the exact same mansion the owner would even notice.

OMG dude--you think that these things are essential items? They're luxury items, just like a multimillion dollar luxury house. But your analogy of taking an item and replacing it with a copy is flawed--you had no intellectual contribution to the thing you feel you're so entitled to have. Why do you feel you're entitled to have something that you had nothing to do with the creation of?
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

They're not. People are seeing less movies in theaters. I believe its because of high prices and poor content.
LOL. Let's completely forget about the major economic down-turn, that people have less fluid money in general. Yeah, clearly it's because of the poor content and prices, not because the economy is in the crapper, and of course that makes it perfectly okay to steal the material.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

When has ANY price reduction occurred? Why would you think that magically they would accept making less money now that the sheeple are used to paying a certain price? I don't see that happening. 1k a week is about 45k a year... bad financial decisions... How is that a bad financial decision when it's your salary? Damn I should have made more this year?? That makes no sense. The fact that you're fine with a middle class family paying 100$ for a movie is wild. It's not about being cheap, it's about drawing the line somewhere. Not being manipulated into constantly spending more etc etc.
I'm saying that if someone is constantly spending 10% of their salary on going to movies each week, as you presented in your argument, and that if they can't afford it, then they're making poor financial decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doritos93 View Post

Listen Guy the rest of your post is a little irrational and I didn't mean to hit any sensitive nerves but all I'm saying is that a casual downloader that isn't distributing the material doesn't deserve to be sued for millions or put in jail. I dunno... something like Drug possession vs Drug possession with intent to distribute...that kind of thing. Anyway, that's it

I'll summarize--like a lot of people, you're cheap. You see songs and movies as little download torrent icons that appear on your computer monitor. You feel that you're entitled to take things that others have spent significant amounts of time and money making. Regardless of whether you make $10k a year or $10m a year, you'll find some reason to advocate for the fact that media isn't worth it, therefore people should steal it. I get it--just like you, lots of people are cheap. It tends to go along with people who haven't had to work hard for much of anything in their life, have never had to deal with making sacrifices, living within a budget, understanding that if they can't afford to have something that they don't get it, and that it's unethical to take something which is not theirs.
    
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post #206 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by newphase View Post

boohoo!
BUY YER STUFF YA PISSANT BUNCH OF CHEAPSKATES! thumb.gif
Burn the pirates houses
steal their food
force-feed heroin to their children
keep them in a poverty trap!
sterilise them so that their awfully cheap and shoddy genes are wiped out. lachen.gif
Don't talk out of yer a$$ - you could find an alternative QUICKER than it took me to type this response.
Witch hunt pfft!
"Oh but hollywood makes such crapola films that i wouldnt pay to watch [INSERT TITLE]"
WHY are you stealing crap then, huh?
Why are you stealing FILMS YOU WOULD NOT PAY TO WATCH?
ARE there not enough TV channels showing dog-poop?(rhetorical question)
This, "it is not worth paying for", argument could be smashed to smithereens by my niece, aged 13.
I would pay to see chemical-castration of film and game thieves.

All this content thats not worth "paying for" yet people ARE paying for it in the form of a megaupload premium account. It's also very profitable, megaupload is proof of that. It's worth paying for, its just not worth what the media corporations are charging.

Also, its not stealing, not practically or by definition. Film and game "theives," as you incorrectly label them, are not the problem. The problem is that the media corporations don't know how to properly compete with filesharing so they have to resort to suing everyone and bribing those who enact and enforce the law.

Steam however is very successful regardless of piracy, so you really have no grounds to make a big deal about those who might pirate games.

EDIT: Also you might want to re-read your quoted post, he was uploading HIS OWN MOVIES THAT HE MADE. He is an example of one of the many legal uses of megaupload.
Edited by james_ant - 1/24/12 at 5:54pm
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post #207 of 249
Personally I think this all relates to an economy thats struggling

Unemployment is high and getting higher

Wages are not going up

Prices of everything is going up

piracy is just the start, wont be long before theres a big argument about stealing food


Dont get wrong here i believe piracy is wrong a no1 should be doing it but it happens, just like shops get robbed and people get mugged its crime it happens

BUT

if things were more resonably priced and aimed for lower class people to afford piracy would go down, sales would go up and in the end there would be more profit in the industry

too much greed in the world, movies costing soo much because we are paying hot shot actors 10mil to make a 2 hour film


arguments should stop, this is life people get use to it
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post #208 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by james_ant View Post

All this content thats not worth "paying for" yet people ARE paying for it in the form of a megaupload premium account. It's also very profitable, megaupload is proof of that. It's worth paying for, its just not worth what the media corporations are charging.
Also, its not stealing, not practically or by definition. Film and game "theives," as you incorrectly label them, are not the problem. The problem is that the media corporations don't know how to properly compete with filesharing so they have to resort to suing everyone and bribing those who enact and enforce the law.
Steam however is very successful regardless of piracy, so you really have no grounds to make a big deal about those who might pirate games.

Exactly, I have paid premium accounts of Filesonic, megaupload, oron and a few others. Those add up to about $400 a year, plus to take full advantage of the memberships I have to have a pretty high speed connection, which is about $80 a month. All in all, it is hardly getting everything for free. For me, it is more about eliminating physical media as a way to simplify my life.
post #209 of 249
And we went from my legitimate complaints to the freeloaders(supposedly). This is why we can't solve the issue. Again...from what I've seen...heard and read...piracy has actually gone up in response to the tighter grip being put on legitimate consumers. I for one buy less games now because of the DRM(hell I won't even pirate them) in them. I've gotten burned to many times or been stuck playing the "Satisfy the DRM" game before playing the game(just and example). Better yet is playing a bluray on my computer...can't get the software PowerDVD to work properly all the time so had to make mkvs out of my collection(renting is out). Mkv files that work great...or bluray discs that have glitchy software? Get it...the most "legal/legitimate" way is the most problematic...so a lot of people feel like there's no incentive to pay. For the last time (I feel like I owe Gabe Newell money now) PIRACY IS NOT A PRICE PROBLEM (at least not exclusively) BUT A SERVICE PROBLEM! There will always be freeloaders but they will be the minority if you convert through better services and pricing methods, the far greater majority that would buy...but didn't have a POSITIVE incentive to do so before.
     
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post #210 of 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo_Punk_2.0 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by james_ant View Post

EDIT: Also you might want to re-read your quoted post, he was uploading HIS OWN MOVIES THAT HE MADE. He is an example of one of the many legal uses of megaupload.
Just a quickie - going ZzZzZz soon... regarding that last bit - that is why I stated that an alternative cloud can be found quite easily. smile.gif
Will respond more tomorrow (interesting debate, btw).

Sry if that doubled - did a KB-shortcut-spaz-out redface.gif
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [TF]Filesonic Kills File-Sharing Service After MegaUpload Arrests