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[SA] Nvidia GK104 to be Priced at $299 - Page 10  

post #91 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by polyzp View Post

My guess for pricing
GTX 690 dualgpu - $849 (either based on two 670s or underclocked 680s) $1,200-$1,500
GTX 685 (if it comes out) - $649 $900
GTX 680 - $549 $850
GTX 670 - $399 $700
GTX 660 - $299 $600

This is completely false. Considering the rumor that teh 7970 is slower than the gtx660 those prices will be atleast 1.5 times higher than rumor prices. Predictions in bold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m3t4lh34d View Post

There is already a card out that performs between a 560 Ti and 570.. It's called the 560 448... why would they release a card on a brand new manufacturing process and hope to make a statement with pathetic performance like that? The 448 already performs in that range for $250... and you're trying to say that the GK104 will perform the same for $299? lol... not quite. The GK104 will most definitely perform better than the GTX580, if not at stock, for sure when overclocked. I'd say it'll be neck and neck with the 580 in some games, and close to the 7970 in others. They're attempting to compete with AMD on a monetary medium, not performance, since they know they can't produce a card that will beat the 7970 at that price, they'll try to get as close as they can to steal away some sales from AMD.
Who would buy a 7970 when you can buy a card that's 8% slower for $300 vs $550?

That will not happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toX0rz View Post

Kepler is a new architecture. I do not see how the power hurdles from the previous Fermi architecture would account for the new Kepler series to have a similar high power consumption.
Apples and oranges.
..generally speaking that is. tongue.gif
But apparently nVidia is truly going a similar direction if the 225W TDP for a MID-RANGE model really turns out to be true, so you might be correct.
But if so, it won't hinder performance at all. They'll simply step up the power consumption on their respective models instead of going for a compromise of consumption and performance (which then WOULD hinder the performance).
The rumours pretty much prove this, mid-range will consume as much as previous high-end and the new high-end will most likely end up in the <300W area.
Well, not only less, but they arent one sided at all.
nVidia offers superior performance (except for dual-GPU, HD 6990 hands down) while AMD offers better price/performance and performance/power consumption, both have valid points.
So i think the AMD vs Intel dispute is quite worse. I've never seen huge flame wars like that concerning a piece of hardware before the BD fiasco... and lets be honest; facts are facts and most of these wars are triggered by the people that still try to find excuses or justify Bulldozer. There is simply no denying that Intel is currently superior in the 3 aspecs mentioned above (price/performance ratio, pure performance and power consumption).
There's been a time where Intel was lagging way behind AMD too and its not unlikely that it will happen again, thats just how it works.
I myself couldnt care less which brand, I go for the best product and thats it.
A bit optimistic, are we?
The GK110/GTX 780 is supposed to launch sometime in June... theres NO way the HD 8xxx series would be just around the corner after not even half a year after the 7xxx launch.
Give it a year till early 2013, MAYBE end of 2012 till the HD 8xxx series....

The G110 is predicted Q3 and prototypes to be released in the summer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post

No, no and again, no. What you wrote here is what you want to happen (who wouldn't? biggrin.gif ), but not what anybody would do to its own products. Lets analyse this move a bit, shall we? wink.gif
a) NVIDIA releases at $300 a card that 90% tops a 7970. Consequences:
  • GTX580 sells are done.
  • GTX570 sells are done.
  • GTX560 Ti 448 sells are done.
  • Because half of NVIDIA's range of cards are done...they don't have anything to sell between a GTX560 Ti and a GK104.
  • Your resellers, partners, e-tailers and other business associates are VERY pissed because of this as they have nobody to sell their GTX560/570/580 products.
b] NVIDIA releases at $300 a card that equals a GTX570. Consequences:
  • It doesn't affect 79XX sells, so there is no market share to be gained.
  • Would increase the profit margin in that specific sector...
  • Wouldn't change anything in its own ranks.
  • Your resellers, partners, e-tailers and other business associates are pissed because AMD is still king and you have no offering in that "enthusiast" segment.
c) NVIDIA relases at $550 a card that tops (by a small margin) a 7970. Consequences:
  • It would force AMD to lower their prices, as well as regain some market-share AND get the crown again.
  • It would only require some slight price modifications in NVIDIAs line-up. Just lower the price for a GTX580 a tad and start to phase it out once you have its substitute almost ready.
  • Your resellers, partners, e-tailers and other business associates are HAPPY because they can keep selling the products they already have whilst fighting with NVIDIA for the performance-crown.
A small analysis:
Option A: this option is just STUPID, and we all know it but some people likes to keep dreaming. Seriously, do you really think a company will release a $300 card, with its existing lineup, that will top a GTX580 and not compete with AMD's offering? Nope, they won't. I'm not saying that the mid-ragen Kepler product wont top a GTX580 and won't be priced at $300 (it will most likely will), but what I'm saying is that you NEVER start with such a product because it makes absolutely no sense from a business standpoint.
It won't happen. So, get over it.
Option B: this option, although not as stupid as the first one, is also REALLY bad. You don't release a product that makes absolutely no sense considering your current line-up unless there is a very good reason for it. We could make an analogy and talk about HD6850 and HD6870...but its different because AMD needed to create a more efficient chip to compete with NVIDIA's GF104, something that won't happen know because what NVIDIA needs is a top tier product...not a midrange one.
Option C: THIS is the one. I'm obviously guessing but I'm not expecting anything below a GTX580 in both performance AND price, and the reasons are very simple yet logical: NVIDIA is the designer/seller in the first stage...but it needs all the other arms of the machine in order to make profit. This means that it has to take care of its partners and associates in order to keep a stable and profitable long-term relationship.
---
So, its only logic to assume that the product will fall in this category. Sorry fellows, rumors are rumors, and my bet is that since NVIDIA showed nothing at CES they are still at least one or one and a half month behind and all these rumors are in place in order to halt AMD's sells.

Finally reason
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowyn View Post

Gotta love the "if true it would kill 580 sales, so it can't be" argument.
By the time nVidia release next gen cards the Fermis would be on the way out if not EOL already. With each gen change there would be a portion of last gen cards still in circulation due to accumulated stock at retails or even GPU vendors themselves (MSI, ASUS etc), but as far as manufacturing goes it stops really fast, cause there is no economical reason to continues pumping out inferior product.

Good thing you do not own a business
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowyn View Post

What's so unrealistic about it?
It's not like there's no options for those looking for more performance like getting those 2 and SLIing them.
Mainstream is where money at in a consumer grade graphics. While not having a card for enthusiasts (doubt it will be long delay anyways, once any Kepler is released as history showed in every gen, line-up gets rolled out in a month-1.5 tops) may looks bad on paper, having a card that is being appeals to 5% of the potential market is hardly matters much for the business side. Plus the way that those 5% enthusiast swap cards around for little gain withing each generation means it doesn't matter when top-dog is getting released as long as it delivers.


The 5% enthusiast market is why we have cards as fast as they are today.
    
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post #92 of 105
According to SA it is a 256bit chip so it can't be a 580 shrink. That also puts into question how it would beat a 580, considering it'll probably need lots of bandwidth like Tahiti. And Nvidia is known to have a slower memory controller than AMD. But who knows, maybe they have it worked out somehow. biggrin.gif

In any case if GK104 is a ~350 mm^2 chip there is a chance it might beat the 7970 if Kepler really is a good architecture. I just find it unlikely. To me it seems like it could be 6970vs.580 reversed, so that Nvidia's 256-bit chip would come close to AMD's 384-bit chip. And the pricing difference would of course be similar (349$ vs. 499$).
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post #93 of 105
Charlie now says stick with 7970 for highest performance. News at 11.

There is absolutely no way GK104 will beat 580 with a 256 bit memory bus. Its going to be a small part with great thermals, but not a gtx580/7970 killer. Sorry folks
post #94 of 105
So is it stupid to still be going for a 7950 3 Gb., or should I wait? Hell, I don't even know when nVidia will release this counter part...
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post #95 of 105
Thread Starter 
If you want the fastest GPU on the market, with no other considerations, get the 7970. If you're uneasy about price/performance, wait for a price drop or more competition/options.
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post #96 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post

If you want the fastest GPU on the market, with no other considerations, get the 7970. If you're uneasy about price/performance, wait for a price drop or more competition/options.

If it was directed at me, then I don't want the fastest. I want the best price/performance card smile.gif Also, I don't have any GPU after February 1st, so I would really love to know how it'll turn out smile.gif Is this GK104 the GTX 670? I'm kind of confused...
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post #97 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitePrQjser View Post

If it was directed at me, then I don't want the fastest. I want the best price/performance card smile.gif Also, I don't have any GPU after February 1st, so I would really love to know how it'll turn out smile.gif Is this GK104 the GTX 670? I'm kind of confused...

There you go, get some 6870s, cause I don't know why you are here if you are looking for performance/price since NONE of these high end cards will come close, as you can see below:

700
Quote:
This is completely false. Considering the rumor that teh 7970 is slower than the gtx660 those prices will be atleast 1.5 times higher than rumor prices. Predictions in bold.

Based on your logic Veyron, since the release of Geforce 256, the GTX580 should cost 50000+ since it is 100x faster.

You seem to fail to see that all new gadget, and lets look at mobile phones - are all priced around 500, even if they are faster and newer, there is a reason for that... think hard for it.

Here is the bottom line: if their production costs are low, they'd have no problem selling for 300 even if it is faster than any other card out there, since they will sell like hot bread. It's not about relative performance that mainly sets the price, it's production costs. GlobalFabs and TMSC have been having a lot of probs with their 28nm process, which leads to many bad wafers (read it on TechPowerUp) which means higher cost for the customer, now nVidia comes along several months later when they have improved the process, getting more chips out of the wafers, what do you expect to happen to the price? Yes, decrease, be less.

I can go on and on proving that the 300 dollars price is no different than the 600 you estimate, it's just a rumor, and both are plausible.

Another edit: http://www.guru3d.com/news/nvidia-gk104-kepler-gpu-priced-at-299-230-/

This coming from "sources being various Nvidia AIB partners."
Edited by thematrix606 - 1/26/12 at 2:05am
post #98 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by thematrix606 View Post

There you go, get some 6870s, cause I don't know why you are here if you are looking for performance/price since NONE of these high end cards will come close, as you can see below:
700
Quote:
This is completely false. Considering the rumor that teh 7970 is slower than the gtx660 those prices will be atleast 1.5 times higher than rumor prices. Predictions in bold.
Based on your logic Veyron, since the release of Geforce 256, the GTX580 should cost 50000+ since it is 100x faster.
You seem to fail to see that all new gadget, and lets look at mobile phones - are all priced around 500, even if they are faster and newer, there is a reason for that... think hard for it.
Here is the bottom line: if their production costs are low, they'd have no problem selling for 300 even if it is faster than any other card out there, since they will sell like hot bread. It's not about relative performance that mainly sets the price, it's production costs. GlobalFabs and TMSC have been having a lot of probs with their 28nm process, which leads to many bad wafers (read it on TechPowerUp) which means higher cost for the customer, now nVidia comes along several months later when they have improved the process, getting more chips out of the wafers, what do you expect to happen to the price? Yes, decrease, be less.
I can go on and on proving that the 300 dollars price is no different than the 600 you estimate, it's just a rumor, and both are plausible.
Another edit: http://www.guru3d.com/news/nvidia-gk104-kepler-gpu-priced-at-299-230-/
This coming from "sources being various Nvidia AIB partners."

Haha! Well, I already have 2x 460s. So let me rephrase this: I want a 7950 3 Gb. or this GTX 670/770 2 Gb., or whatever this GK104 means.
Edited by WhitePrQjser - 1/26/12 at 5:48am
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post #99 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by thematrix606 View Post

There you go, get some 6870s, cause I don't know why you are here if you are looking for performance/price since NONE of these high end cards will come close, as you can see below:
700
Quote:
This is completely false. Considering the rumor that teh 7970 is slower than the gtx660 those prices will be atleast 1.5 times higher than rumor prices. Predictions in bold.
Based on your logic Veyron, since the release of Geforce 256, the GTX580 should cost 50000+ since it is 100x faster.
You seem to fail to see that all new gadget, and lets look at mobile phones - are all priced around 500, even if they are faster and newer, there is a reason for that... think hard for it.
Here is the bottom line: if their production costs are low, they'd have no problem selling for 300 even if it is faster than any other card out there, since they will sell like hot bread. It's not about relative performance that mainly sets the price, it's production costs. GlobalFabs and TMSC have been having a lot of probs with their 28nm process, which leads to many bad wafers (read it on TechPowerUp) which means higher cost for the customer, now nVidia comes along several months later when they have improved the process, getting more chips out of the wafers, what do you expect to happen to the price? Yes, decrease, be less.
I can go on and on proving that the 300 dollars price is no different than the 600 you estimate, it's just a rumor, and both are plausible.
Another edit: http://www.guru3d.com/news/nvidia-gk104-kepler-gpu-priced-at-299-230-/
This coming from "sources being various Nvidia AIB partners."

And based on your logic, you think that the GTX 580 is worth the money because its many times faster than a gforce. Use your brain for a moment. We are talking about a 660gtx that is faster than a 7970 for nearly half the price. It doesnt make economic sense.

1. Nvidia wouldnt be stupid enough to sell a card that cheap.
2. If they are, then retailers will lose a lot of money with all the cards above a 560ti
    
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post #100 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by veyron1001 View Post

And based on your logic, you think that the GTX 580 is worth the money because its many times faster than a gforce. Use your brain for a moment. We are talking about a 660gtx that is faster than a 7970 for nearly half the price. It doesnt make economic sense.
1. Nvidia wouldnt be stupid enough to sell a card that cheap.
2. If they are, then retailers will lose a lot of money with all the cards above a 560ti

Not proper behaviour.




You all need to consider what you're saying before spraying insults. It's become very childish as of late. I think a moderator should take a look at this thread.
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(29 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8320 ASRock 990FX Extreme4 Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X Crucial BallistiX Sport 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 3.5" 7200rpm [Internal] Western Digital 3.5" 7200rpm [Internal] Hitachi Deskstar 3.5" 7200rpm [Internal] Western Digital "Elements" 3.5" 7200rpm [External] 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Western Digital 2.5" 7200rpm [Internal] Seagate Barracuda 3.5" 7200rpm [Internal] Western Digital 3.5" 7200rpm [Internal] Samsung 840 Series SSD 
Optical DriveOSMonitorMonitor
Pioneer DVR-115 DVD+/-RW Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1 2x BenQ 24" G2420HDB LG 50PK250N 50" Plasma TV 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ 1070W Projector Logitech K200 XFX ProSeries Black Edition 850W Phanteks Enthoo Pro 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Roccat Kone+ SteelSeries 4D Cerwin Vega XLS-6 speakers Fronts Cerwin Vega CLSC-6C Center 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Jamo cornet 40 II Rears Pioneer VSX-421 Surround Receiver Creative Sound Blaster Tactic3D Rage Wireless LG HX906SB 3D Home Cinema system 
Other
Scythe Kaze Master II 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Rumors and Unconfirmed Articles › [SA] Nvidia GK104 to be Priced at $299