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Best DPI Settings? - Page 5

post #41 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock003 View Post

Guys I think lots of people still use optical mice nowadays. Are they considered just as good for gaming due to thei lower DPI, or does it not matter at all? I notice people saying they go for 400-800 dpi setting and i think they might be using optical.

Just a diff tracking method. Most development has been focused on laser within the few past few years. The best optical hardware dates back to 04.

Glymbol has in depth and calculated solutions for quake based engines.
post #42 of 48
So does this mean 400 dpi 2 sense is slower than 800 and 1 sense in terms of speed
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post #43 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlmiller0015 View Post

So does this mean 400 dpi 2 sense is slower than 800 and 1 sense in terms of speed
"Speed" can be confusing way to call it: the actual speed at which you move your mouse is a factor speed wise as "speed" is measured in m/s (for mices) (or inch/s).

The 400/2 vs 800/1 example posted by Glymbol on page 3 is to equal the distances (meters or inches) one has to move their mouse to achieve the same angle of view change, e.g. 180° or 360°. But that despite the same physical movement was made, 51,95 cm/360° in his example, the precision that can be achieved is not the same (sub-pixel precision in 3D environment).


To get back on the original subject of this thread "Which DPI is the best". I'm a low sensitivity player on a Quake 3 engine based game (as is DeMS biggrin.gif). I've been lately looking into what best possible configuration for me. Finding out my previous sensitivity i was using was actually too high for precise tracking and aiming (over-aiming & under-aiming). I have lowered it since (with much surprise that my aiming improved because of that).

There are a few limiting factor here for me:
  • My max screen resolution is 1680x1050
  • I'm using a 'fall back' system which has a low performance graphics card (HD5450). So running a game at 1680x1050 is impossible to get a proper stable FPS (125)
  • The resolution at which I can get relatively stable 125 FPS is 800x600
  • 125 FPS is a sweet spot for the Q3 based engine game which has a limit of \cl_maxpackets 42 max
  • Low sensitivity player
  • Out-of-the-box game binary doesn't support raw input, only WM_MOUSEMOVE or DirectInput (which has a higher response latency, so not a good choice ... for me)

I'm using a DeathAdder 3G (1800dpi/cpi), 1000hz polling, default windows and driver sensitivity with Cheese Mousefix installed (for 75Hz since my screen CAN do 75Hz at resolutions of 1280x1024 and below), with an in-game sensitivity of 0.625.

During testing it at 1800 cpi settings, i will hit negative acceleration fairly easily (read: all the time). As confirmed by the calculations on http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html.

At 900 cpi the negative acceleration effect is still very noticeable.

At 450 cpi the negative acceleration effect is less often noticeable, but it does kick in regularly while making 90° ~ 180° twitch movements. Makes the twitch movements precision very 'random' due to the negative acceleration ... or malfunction speed of the mouse -> From ESReality testing of the DeathAdder, it was shown that the DA at 450 cpi does has a lower malfunction speed than compared to at 1800 cpi (link).

DeMS pointed me out the existence of the Enotus mouse test. Which according to it, I'm reaching speed well above the 4.4 m/s malfunction speed. Albeit several people doubt (including DeMS himself) about the accuracy of Enotus mouse test.

But let's assume the numbers are right. According to the calculations, i need a 200 cpi mouse at a sens of 5.5555556 (for WM_MOUSEMOVE input based games)? But at which I'm probably going to lose the sub-pixel precision the 1800 cpi settings gives me right now for tracking? Or is sub-pixel precision only matters if i were using raw input since that is capable for high resolution input?
Edited by Nexu - 1/29/12 at 12:30am
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post #44 of 48
Thread Starter 
Oh man this past days I've been reading intensely trying to figure out all these new meanings pertaining to mice function. Not only do they interest me as functional procedures to understand how things works, but what I also want ta make out of this, is what the best mouse will be for me. Some Additional questions.

-You guys seem to mention the Quake 3 Engine as reference a lot. What other engines are there that the majority of games use, and does it deviate a lot from the Q3? The CryEngine must be one.
-Also does Monitor frequency play any part? I got a 3D enabled screen that can do 100/110/120. Shall i leave it at 60Hz, or up it?
-Finally my 3 mice are Coolermaster Storm sentinel Advance, QPAD 5K, and Gigabyte Ghost 8800 Extreme. I heard complaints about them, so firstly I'm trying to decide if i should go optical or get a better laser mouse. I don t want to get a mousepad that fits one of them but later decide that their not good for my game and spend money for another mousepad...
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post #45 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock003 View Post

-You guys seem to mention the Quake 3 Engine as reference a lot. What other engines are there that the majority of games use, and does it deviate a lot from the Q3? The CryEngine must be one.
Quake 3 engine .. or rather the Quake engine, is the grand father of the popular (highly) competitive games in the FPS scene. Such as CS and Q3A/QuakeLive.
  • CS being originally a HalfLife mod, which runs on the GoldSrc engine. Where later the Source engine was based on (HL2, CSS, L4D, etc.).
  • QuakeLive being a revival of Q3A is obviously a Quake 3 engine derivative.
  • Other popular competitive FPS games such as Call of Duty serie games runs on "IW Engine", which is heavily based on Quake 3 engine.
So it's fair to say that the core input processing techniques used are fairly similar to how input affects the view point in the game; Albeit some of them got developed further and support more 'modern' input API's such as DirectInput and raw input.
Some developers went to developed their own engines, e.g.: DICE developed the Refractor Engine (BF1942 series) and Frostbite engines (BF2BC, BF3). AFAIK, CryEngine does not seem to be originated from the Quake engine at all.
Significant amount of the mainstream games are however are based on, or under license, of Unreal Engines (2.x/3.x).

But the point here would be (or what i believe it is) that it is in the competitive scene where people tend to want to squeeze last ounce of benefit from their equipment to get an edge on their opponent. Where as single player or casual gaming oriented games is less important how precise and fast you can twitch aim at your opponents or AI enemies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock003 View Post

-Also does Monitor frequency play any part? I got a 3D enabled screen that can do 100/110/120. Shall i leave it at 60Hz, or up it?
For games that utilizes "the old" WM_MOUSEMOVE input method. It might play an influence if i believe what's written about Windows mouse ballistic.
Running your screen at higher refresh rate generally should give you more smoother view of the game. That is, if your game or engine isn't capped at some arbitrary FPS lower than your screen refresh rate. A nasty habit from many game publishers these days, due to consolitis, is to cap how much FPS the game renders, such as 60FPS or even 30FPS. Tho this on itself does not influence mouse input on itself, or AFAIK; other than some of these engines might be still using WM_MOUSEMOVE which would affect negative acceleration, or DirectInput which causes input lag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by therock003 View Post

-Finally my 3 mice are Coolermaster Storm sentinel Advance, QPAD 5K, and Gigabyte Ghost 8800 Extreme. I heard complaints about them, so firstly I'm trying to decide if i should go optical or get a better laser mouse. I don t want to get a mousepad that fits one of them but later decide that their not good for my game and spend money for another mousepad...
The CM Storm Sentinel Advance uses the same sensor (Philips Twin Eye PLN 2032 - OCN mouse reference thread). Seem to have known Z-Axis issues (lift off). But this shouldn't affect you if you are high sensitivity user and/or simply never lift up your mouse to reposition.
Quote:
High Sens: Top speed of 0.5 m/s
High sensitivity players don't tend to move the mouse very far when they're playing so they can make do with small mousepads. They have to keep a very firm grip on the mouse because the slightest movement translates to huge swings on the computer screen. High sensitivity players don't need to move their mice very fast.
The video explains why Z-Axis issue might not concern you (with an Imperator, which uses the same sensor as your CM SSA and have the same Z-Axis issue): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kttUwT58Jiw

See also: http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=2024663

But you might have already found out these information by yourself. Forgive me if i'm repeating stuff you already knew.
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post #46 of 48
it is variable i ll explain why:say you want your mouse to act proportially inverse to what you do last i check you couldnt without a bit of hack!there was guy here if i recall he was asking for how to set negativly his mouse!not avail yet your too an advanced player!
post #47 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexu View Post

For games that utilizes "the old" WM_MOUSEMOVE input method. It might play an influence if i believe what's written about Windows mouse ballistic.
Running your screen at higher refresh rate generally should give you more smoother view of the game. That is, if your game or engine isn't capped at some arbitrary FPS lower than your screen refresh rate. A nasty habit from many game publishers these days, due to consolitis, is to cap how much FPS the game renders, such as 60FPS or even 30FPS. Tho this on itself does not influence mouse input on itself, or AFAIK; other than some of these engines might be still using WM_MOUSEMOVE which would affect negative acceleration, or DirectInput which causes input lag..
Monitor refresh rate itself doesn't have an effect but the FPS because it determines how often the the cursor gets re-centered (usually the game reads WM_MOUSEMOVE every frame).
post #48 of 48
Thread Starter 
@Nexu
I've heard the Gigabyte Ghost has lift off issues instead and the CM Sentinel has issues with jitter. Maybe i got the wrong info.

You say that these details are important on multiplayer format right? Well over the years i only played Single Player Campaigns with whatever crappy mouse and keyboard i got available. Now i plan to finish some more campaigns and then start playing multiplayer as well. But i need to be ready. How can i find the right mouse-mousepad combination? Shall i start with what i got, or should i discard my 3 original options and start anew?

Shall i start by investigating what sensor is the best, and then find the mouse with the appropriate sensor, and then go for the mousepad that corresponds better with said mouse?
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