post #111 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D.BID View Post

Looks like the one that needs to pick up a book is you because YOUR ignorance is staggering. You bleeding heart liberals and "progressive" thinkers really need to take a look at who Che Guevara really was. He wasn't a proud revolutionary for the people. He was a marxist, a murderer and a henchman of Fidel Castro.
Che personally oversaw the execution of thousands of people that were tried in Cuba all without due process. Those aren't the actions of a proud and honorable revolutionary. You've conveniently ignored a major chunk of this mans life. Or do you now get to pick and choose what you want people to remember about him for your own interests?
And Che is spinning in his grave right now at the sight of you liberals down at your "occupy whatever," and how you've commercialized him with your "Che" t-shirts and handbags. This murderer is now a pop-culture phenom.

Of course he was a murderous man, I never said otherwise did I? I simply said what his ideas were, they were indeed noble, his actions were not. But let's be honest, Che does not represent what you said he does, when people wear his shirt or use his Avatar are referring to the man's ideas of equality. It's no different than what Lenin did, Lenin was a great thinker, an amazing revolutionary, but he ended up becoming what he hated, there are important lessons here. But I digress, Let me ask you, has American not done the same? We are responsible for thousands of deaths due to no due process, look what we did in Iraq Abu Grarib(sp?) , does that mean the American ideals are farce? That the American ideal should be seen in those terms and not what it really stands for? Or does it mean that ideas are easily corrupted when power overwhelms the human spirit?

So let me recapitulate, I'm well aware of his atrocities, but Che's image is not used by people who advocate whole sale murder, or any of his negatives, well some do I'm sure, but I'm welling to give the benefit of the doubt, and I would certainty never dismiss their ideas out of hand because of it. He is an idea nothing more. Personally, I would never use that symbol because of what you said, he completely corrupted himself in the pursuit of his dream as most revolutionaries do, again important lesson there. I would use the father of Socialism, Karl Marx. A great thinker, and a man who understood Capitalism better than any has before or sense, and it's intense ability to create great wealth and great inequality. What Apple does, and all of it's competitors(that is after all why Apple is in China) is the continuous cycle of this horrid exploitative cycle.

"He was a marxist, a murderer, and henchmen of Fidel Castro"

Tell me, what is wrong with a Marxist? Perhaps in PM's would be better, but I'm willing to bet you know nothing about it, and the tremendous literature there is. Why is it that Marxist's are always reviled? Certainly Capitalists are guilty of more atrocity? Capitalism just cares about profits, and markets, while democracy, equality, and freedom, none of those things matter(does any of that exist in perhaps the biggest capitalist country in the world? China?). Worse still it is a system that has become so entrenched that even questioning it leads to this discussion, you know what happens to a system that is immune to criticism? It decays, it stagnates, and it dies a violent death. History is littered with it.

Marx simply pointed out what the Physiocrats pointed out earlier, surplus production, he just elaborated on it in much grander scale, his breadth of knowledge was amazing, and certainly he is one of the world's greatest thinkers.
Edited by Cesaro Summability - 2/1/12 at 12:02am
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