silver kill coil, not working - Page 17

Well, not for PC use but I believe it was studied in swimming pools. I tried googling for the link but couldn't find it. However it does look like people are selling silver ion solutions for swimming pools. Food for thought?

@opt33. I agree with you that nickel has a far larger amount of time that it takes to corrode than copper does but aren't the blocks only nickel plated on the outside for aesthetic reasons? I honestly don't know because I use the heatkillers and they are copper through and through.

Now why marine equipment is using. Ickes over stainless is making me scratch my head as to why

@martinm210. I pointed out a few posts ago that it is not just the copper and it is not just the silver but it's both reacting with each other that causes the huge explosion of bio killing soup. Sorry for the colorful metaphors but I just woke up.
Edited by gahz1 - 3/2/12 at 10:48am

It seems the only place in my loop that I ever had any growth was my Swiftech res. and I had PT nuke in the system. Everything else was mainly clean after a couple years. I filled that res with ketchup and let it sit overnight, shaking it every couple hours and it came out nice and clean. All growth was gone but the plastic was cloudy and I am guessing that is just from the product material.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the older blocks with nickel don't corrode while the new ones do.

2 reasons to nickel plate and both are aesthetic. Looks better (to some) when new. Copper oxidation is ugly. Nickel forms a thin, tightly adherent oxidized protective layer, more so then copper, and it doesnt look ugly.

Here is quote from plating site
nickel plating is a great idea on paper, but so far implementation from mass producers has been poor in our ion soup environment. Which is why I am sticking with all copper as well.
Edited by opt33 - 3/2/12 at 12:13pm

@opt33 my point was that it doesn't matter if your using all the same metal or if you are using dissimilar ones. The outcome will all ways be the same if you are using ion poor water. Corrosion. The water doesn't care one way or another if it's copper or nickel or brass, it will strip whatever of its ions till it is balanced out.

This is why you should never use pure DI or distilled. If you add something to it that is rich in ions then it is ok to use it but then again if you do that you won't have DI or distilled anymore in the definitive term right?
Edited by gahz1 - 3/3/12 at 4:07am

@gahz1, If your using all copper+ distilled, you will get all copper ions in the water rapidly at first (erosion corrosion), but after a few months you will no longer have distilled water, ie copper ionized... the water will be much less aggressive, and rate at some point becomes almost a steady state, ie very limited erosion corrosion. Which is why it is safe to run distilled in our loops since recirculates the same water, because it quickly becomes ionized. But it is not ok to pipe continually fresh distilled through copper piping, because after millions of gallons + years, it erodes the pipe and eventually can leak. And ideally you want all the same ions, so no galvanic corrosion starts.

When you have dissimilar metals, you get erosion corrosion first, but then for example you have silver ions +.8 interacting with nickel plating -.2, and nickel on plating will lose an electron to the silver ion, and now you have you have another type of corrosion as you have set up a galvanic cell.

But yes erosion corrosion always happens, but that is self limiting in a loop that recirculates the same water. And you want some erosion corrosion to take place, after all copper ions are antimicrobial.

@AMC, anecdotal reports help to determine possibilities but not probabilities, and with so many variables in each loop and in manufacturing, it will never be all or none.

For example say EK makes 300 nickel plated blocks, and under mass production keeping costs down, invariably the quality will be variable, some prepped better than others, plated thicker, etc. And 1/3 (100 each) randomly selected for 3 groups 1) inhibited water 2) distilled water 3) distilled water with copper/silver added. All ran in exact same loop (to eliminate the variability in our loops), same rad/blocks, etc, only difference was liquid used.

And say nickel loss with copper exposed happened in 5/100 of inhibited group, 20/100 in distilled group, and 50/100 in copper silver added group. And btw, in real testing, that is type of thing you see, rarely is it the all or none people seem to expect. Then you would claim 10x reduction in nickel loss with inhibitors vs copper/silver addition, and 4x reduction of inhibitors vs distilled only. And basically that is type testing EK did, and likely koolance, though on smaller scale.

Can you argue, why not plate the nickel 2x as thick with hardening outer layer or 5x thicker like that used in marine/saltwater settings...sure. That will solve the problem, you can use whatever fluid you want, but you will pay 3X the price.

I think you are left with 1) pay for custom thicker nickel plated blocks at 3X price and use whatever cooling you want. 2) buy mass produced relatively cheaper nickel plating, and either a) cross your fingers that you got one that was perfectly prepped/plated + your particular setup/use is the least harsh that allows nickel survival, since you cant rma it, or b) use inhibitors and pray you dont have the 5/100 that wont survive even using inhibitors under your particular use.

@opt33 yep that's pretty much what I was trying to get at also. Sometimes I forget that we are running small closed loops. I'm used to dealing with huge open loop cooling towers daily

TL:DR

In short, the blocks are black, coil is tinted black

cause? oxidation

Solution?

Use some radiator additive - has properties that help stop corrosion.
Use different brand of water.

Corrosion? No.

This is corrosion:

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

How to remove black gunk?

Toilet bowl cleaner and a toothbrush (Use on Copper / Brass ONLY, will react with aluminum and some silver metals)

How do I know this?

I own the water block in that corrosion picture. I tried cleaning the copper block with salt + vinegar, it did diddly squat. Toiletbowl cleaner got it off like MAGIC. Looks JUST LIKE NEW.

Listen to what Martinm210 has to say, he is the ultimate Water Cooling Mythbuster.
Edited by pn0yb0i - 3/4/12 at 9:51am

What swimming pools do you know that use copper sulfate? It stains the sides and chlorine is much more effective. I use nothing but chlorine tablets and the occasional shock treatment during the summer. Put a silver kill coil in your fish tank and watch all your fish die.

Add salt to the vinegar and it would've came off in 5 mins.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 3/3/12 at 11:29pm