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post #71 of 205
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vedaire View Post

ok folks heres the simple of it after googling the materials he listed in combination brass aka copper/zinc mix pure copper and the silver coil it will boost corrosive properties.
in a small loop those carry and settle fast so its a good chance of corrision add to this if all the vinegar wasnt out of the system it would boost corrosion significantly.
so my guess is corrision by all the different metals all so close together.

Crap. I knew zinc was one of the metals that reacted badly with the other metals in my loop but I did not realize brass had zinc in it.

Ok guys, stay away from radiators that have brass unless you plan on using corrosion inhibitor.

edit: I actually cant confirm there is brass in my loop. Im looking to see if the swiftech radiator has any, as I know xspc does not use brass in the rx series rads. The swiftech rad has some paint missing and to me it looks like brass and not copper
Edited by AliceInChains - 2/2/12 at 6:10pm
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post #72 of 205
Thread Starter 
Its confirmed. Here is the specs from frozencpu.com:

High Performance

•The new Quiet Power design yields higher performance than previous MCR120 model, and delivers ample heat dissipation headroom for the most demanding applications
•Flat brass tubes and louvered copper fins, with brass plenum chambers and frame construction, for optimum thermal conductivity.
•Flat frame surface provides optimum seal to the fans


I will be selling this radiator to my local salvage yard. I cant in good conscience sell this radiator to someone and have the same thing happen to them.

If I clean my rx360 with vinegar/distilled water it should be ok right? It wont keep corroding or anything right? Im going to do as the other guy suggested and use that feser corrosion blocker base (ethylene glycol)
Edited by AliceInChains - 2/2/12 at 6:15pm
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post #73 of 205
Umm. Brass is in a good chunk of your loop. The majority of fittings on the market are brass. It has been used forever in water cooling loops. Brass will not react with copper.

Nickel, copper, brass, bronze are all within the specified .15v Anoidic index to avoid corrosion. Silver is slightly out, depending on which cart you look at. Just because brass has zinc, does not mean it reacts with copper.
 
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post #74 of 205
you do realize many fittings are made of brass as well. Unless the brass your using has higher amounts of zinc (18% or higher which is unlickly) it would make no difference and even then, it is highly unlikely the cause.

The silver on the other hand reacts to copper and brass much faster especially in a water loop. For our purposes, we should keept it at a maximum difference of .15, and even then that is pushing it. .1 is more acceptable because of the constant contact to water.





Anodic index
Metal Index (V)
Most Cathodic
Gold, solid and plated, Gold-platinum alloy -0.00
Rhodium plated on silver-plated copper -0.05
Silver, solid or plated; monel metal. High nickel-copper alloys -0.15
Nickel, solid or plated, titanium an s alloys, Monel -0.30
Copper, solid or plated; low brasses or bronzes; silver solder; German silvery high copper-nickel alloys; nickel-chromium alloys -0.35
Brass and bronzes -0.40
High brasses and bronzes -0.45
18% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels -0.50
Chromium plated; tin plated; 12% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels -0.60
Tin-plate; tin-lead solder -0.65
Lead, solid or plated; high lead alloys -0.70
2000 series wrought aluminum -0.75
Iron, wrought, gray or malleable, plain carbon and low alloy steels -0.85
Aluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000 series aluminum, cast alloys of the silicon type -0.90
Aluminum, cast alloys other than silicon type, cadmium, plated and chromate -0.95
Hot-dip-zinc plate; galvanized steel -1.20
Zinc, wrought; zinc-base die-casting alloys; zinc plated -1.25
Magnesium & magnesium-base alloys, cast or wrought -1.75
Beryllium -1.85
Most Anodic

as you can see, brass/copper/nickel are all within .10 of each other (.40, .35, .30 respectively) while silver is all the way down to .15.

Kill coils are very popular and obviously have been used with good success, but there are to many instances of corrosion like this that are easy to pinpoint on the silver for obvious reasons. This is why i have always been told to use pt nuke or nuke phn (depends if you have corrosion blocker in your loop or not).

so before you go throwing away your radiator (hell, ill take it and pay the shipping) do understand that not only is brass in more than just the rads, but that is has very minimal impact. Dont you think others would be in the same boat as you if it were the rads?

i would just drain, clean and refill the loop the way you had it, add some nuke phn and corrosion blocker (though this isnt needed) and keep the silver out.


so before you go throwing away that radiator
     
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post #75 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angrybutcher View Post

Umm. Brass is in a good chunk of your loop. The majority of fittings on the market are brass. It has been used forever in water cooling loops. Brass will not react with copper.
Nickel, copper, brass, bronze are all within the specified .15v Anoidic index to avoid corrosion. Silver is slightly out, depending on which cart you look at. Just because brass has zinc, does not mean it reacts with copper.

lol beat me to it
     
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post #76 of 205
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

you do realize many fittings are made of brass as well. Unless the brass your using has higher amounts of zinc (18% or higher which is unlickly) it would make no difference and even then, it is highly unlikely the cause.
The silver on the other hand reacts to copper and brass much faster especially in a water loop. For our purposes, we should keept it at a maximum difference of .15, and even then that is pushing it. .1 is more acceptable because of the constant contact to water.

Anodic index
Metal Index (V)
Most Cathodic
Gold, solid and plated, Gold-platinum alloy -0.00
Rhodium plated on silver-plated copper -0.05
Silver, solid or plated; monel metal. High nickel-copper alloys -0.15
Nickel, solid or plated, titanium an s alloys, Monel -0.30
Copper, solid or plated; low brasses or bronzes; silver solder; German silvery high copper-nickel alloys; nickel-chromium alloys -0.35
Brass and bronzes -0.40
High brasses and bronzes -0.45
18% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels -0.50
Chromium plated; tin plated; 12% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels -0.60
Tin-plate; tin-lead solder -0.65
Lead, solid or plated; high lead alloys -0.70
2000 series wrought aluminum -0.75
Iron, wrought, gray or malleable, plain carbon and low alloy steels -0.85
Aluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000 series aluminum, cast alloys of the silicon type -0.90
Aluminum, cast alloys other than silicon type, cadmium, plated and chromate -0.95
Hot-dip-zinc plate; galvanized steel -1.20
Zinc, wrought; zinc-base die-casting alloys; zinc plated -1.25
Magnesium & magnesium-base alloys, cast or wrought -1.75
Beryllium -1.85
Most Anodic
as you can see, brass/copper/nickel are all within .10 of each other (.40, .35, .30 respectively) while silver is all the way down to .15.
Kill coils are very popular and obviously have been used with good success, but there are to many instances of corrosion like this that are easy to pinpoint on the silver for obvious reasons. This is why i have always been told to use pt nuke or nuke phn (depends if you have corrosion blocker in your loop or not).
so before you go throwing away your radiator (hell, ill take it and pay the shipping) do understand that not only is brass in more than just the rads, but that is has very minimal impact. Dont you think others would be in the same boat as you if it were the rads?
i would just drain, clean and refill the loop the way you had it, add some nuke phn and corrosion blocker (though this isnt needed) and keep the silver out.
so before you go throwing away that radiator


So your saying it is more likely the silver kill coil than the brass in the rad? I do have some cheap dangerden fittings that are made from cheap brass. I can tell because they look like crap. I will never buy those again either.

I actually ordered a 10ml bottle of that pt nuke phn. That is the stuff I want to use if I use that feser corrosion blocker, correct? Thanks for the help
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post #77 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliceInChains View Post

So your saying it is more likely the silver kill coil than the brass in the rad? I do have some cheap dangerden fittings that are made from cheap brass. I can tell because they look like crap. I will never buy those again either.
I actually ordered a 10ml bottle of that pt nuke phn. That is the stuff I want to use if I use that feser corrosion blocker, correct? Thanks for the help

that is exactly what i use with good results (with others i know doing the same). i have copper (raystorm cpu block) nickel (2 en nickel ek blocks) and brass (fittings and what not)

i use feser blocker base and nuke phn (make SURE it is feser BASE and nuke PHN). The base is important as it has a ph of 7-7.2 if mixed correctly with distilled water (its 50ml feser to 2L water if i remember correctly, says on the bottle) and the nuke phn only needs a few drops into the water (the phn is important as it uses a chloride which is base as well and keeps the water ph in balance as well as it does not contain copper sulfate (which is used in pt Nuke).
     
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post #78 of 205
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

that is exactly what i use with good results (with others i know doing the same). i have copper (raystorm cpu block) nickel (2 en nickel ek blocks) and brass (fittings and what not)
i use feser blocker base and nuke phn (make SURE it is feser BASE and nuke PHN). The base is important as it has a ph of 7-7.2 if mixed correctly with distilled water (its 50ml feser to 2L water if i remember correctly, says on the bottle) and the nuke phn only needs a few drops into the water (the phn is important as it uses a chloride which is base as well and keeps the water ph in balance as well as it does not contain copper sulfate (which is used in pt Nuke).

Ok, thats what I thought. Just wanted to make sure I bought the right stuff. Let me ask you this, with that feser base would I be safe from corrosion IF I used a kill coil instead of the phn? I have 3-4 kill coils laying around as well. Also, how often do you recommend adding the phn to the loop. Is it just one time and its good for a long while? Or do I need to add more a few months down the line. Its questions like these that made me go with the kill coil in the first place. But my main concern is corrosion.


Im going to spend alot of time planning this loop out. I rushed into my last one, and didnt give alot of thought to the coolant, and metals being used. I spent most of my time on the actual loop design. Now that I have the loop design perfected from the first time, I can take it slow and make sure I have the right combination of coolant, additives, and metals.

Ive actually used this corrosion experience as an excuse to buy the nickel blocks (as I regretted not getting them in the first place as nickel is 10x better looking than copper), so I may have my copper ek 580 blocks up for sale very soon, which btw are almost perfectly clean now. THe corrosion is almost completely gone.
Edited by AliceInChains - 2/2/12 at 10:42pm
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post #79 of 205
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post #80 of 205
well the way feser and other corrosive blockers work is by covering the metal itself with an atoms thin layer (ok, probably a few thousandths of a mm) and "blocking" the interaction between the different metals. so in theory, yes, but the problem is whether that prevents the silver from doing it biocide thing.

Honestly, i would just go without the silver. i mean, for me, with the amount of work it takes to drain and clean the loop (let alone set it up), its worth the 10 bucks lost and moving on.

and yes, the nickel looks sick (i have their backplates and they are snazzy lol)
     
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