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[OBR] Haswell Die Size Revealed - Page 8

post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Just think, in 10 years you'll look back in amazement that we were still measuring processes in nanometers. I remember pentiums with processes measured in micrometers. The pentium pros made in 1995 had a 0.5 micrometer process, which is 500nm. My 8088 had a process size of 3 micrometers, or 3000nm. If you took a 32nm Sandy bridge-E CPU and made it using the process size of an 8088 it would end up being about 12.5 ft x 12.5 ft in size, and would consume a peak power of around 3.06 million watts (theoretically, but realistically speaking you couldn't just make a CPU that size and expect to work the same, and even if you could it'd be slow as hell compared to a 32nm version.)

A 3000nm Sandy Bridge? Indeed the transistors would look like popcorn kernels.
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post #72 of 84
Yeah, kind of a reason why I'm holding off on upgrading until Haswell. First, it's another socket change (LGA1155 to LGA1150) and second, Thunderbolt is suppose to be integrated with the higher-end motherboards, as I know Ivy Bridge boards won't have it yet and not many are making promises about having it. Also with things like mPCI-e ports being put onto new motherboards, I will no longer require my old PCI 805.11n wireless card and just get one of those. (Want to run 5GHz WiFi, but sadly this card doesn't accept that frequency.) Hopefully USB 2.0 will also be phased out entirely from motherboards too and replaced completely with USB 3.0. Since they are backwards compatible, shouldn't be an issue.

And those that are still running LGA775 socket processors, yeah, for sure upgrade sooner rather than later. For one, some of your processors are 5 years or older, and if you've ever overclocked them, I can't imagine it'll last for another few years. I mean, I do know of a Pentium II machine that still ran until I replaced with with a G620 not that long ago, but all that was mainly used on was web browsing. I heard something that the first i7 series were meant to last for something like 20 years or so on stock clocks before the expected EOL and if you overclock them, it'll last anywhere from 5-10 depending on where you set everything. I don't know if that was something someone pulled out of their arse or if it's somewhat true. I mean, it is silicon and it's not suppose to last forever, especially under long term exposure to heat.
post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloppyjoe123 View Post

I see a 1pm (pico-metre) chip with TDP of 2W coming up sooner than expected smile.gif

That'll be really hard to get. I mean an atom has a diameter of around 10^-10 m and a picometre is 10^-12 m hence it's smaller than the average diameter of a atom. This is the reason why the Moore law will stop once it reaches a manufacturing process near 10^-10 m (0.1 nm).
post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by henry85 View Post

That'll be really hard to get. I mean an atom has a diameter of around 10^-10 m and a picometre is 10^-12 m hence it's smaller than the average diameter of a atom. This is the reason why the Moore law will stop once it reaches a manufacturing process near 10^-10 m (0.1 nm).
I believe Moore's law only applies to silicon arranged in a 2-D plane. Tri-gate transistors will extend Moore's law for another 200 years.
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post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

I believe Moore's law only applies to silicon arranged in a 2-D plane. Tri-gate transistors will extend Moore's law for another 200 years.

No it doesn't and no it won't.

Moores Law says that transistor density doubles every 18-24 months or so, it doesn't specify two dimensions or much of anything else.

Also, tri-gate transistors do not extend transistor densities in three dimensions. Current chips aren't typically stacked, and even when they can be, tri-gate transistors aren't needed.

Moores Law may continue past the point where transistors cannot be made smaller, because there are technologies that will allow multiple wafers to be stacked, but the point at which the transistors themselves absolutely cannot be made smaller is rapidly approaching.
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post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lareson View Post

Yeah, kind of a reason why I'm holding off on upgrading until Haswell. First, it's another socket change (LGA1155 to LGA1150) and second, Thunderbolt is suppose to be integrated with the higher-end motherboards, as I know Ivy Bridge boards won't have it yet and not many are making promises about having it. Also with things like mPCI-e ports being put onto new motherboards, I will no longer require my old PCI 805.11n wireless card and just get one of those. (Want to run 5GHz WiFi, but sadly this card doesn't accept that frequency.) Hopefully USB 2.0 will also be phased out entirely from motherboards too and replaced completely with USB 3.0. Since they are backwards compatible, shouldn't be an issue.
And those that are still running LGA775 socket processors, yeah, for sure upgrade sooner rather than later. For one, some of your processors are 5 years or older, and if you've ever overclocked them, I can't imagine it'll last for another few years. I mean, I do know of a Pentium II machine that still ran until I replaced with with a G620 not that long ago, but all that was mainly used on was web browsing. I heard something that the first i7 series were meant to last for something like 20 years or so on stock clocks before the expected EOL and if you overclock them, it'll last anywhere from 5-10 depending on where you set everything. I don't know if that was something someone pulled out of their arse or if it's somewhat true. I mean, it is silicon and it's not suppose to last forever, especially under long term exposure to heat.

Haswell chipset (Lynx Point) has six USB 3.0 ports and six SATA III ports. USB 2.0 will be used for remaining ports (6-8). I guess one reason for this is because USB 3.0 needs more connections.

As for Thunderbolt, until it gets cheaper and widely available, you will still only see them at very high end MB. Upcoming MSI Z77-GD80 has Thunderbolt support. I have only seen ASRock Z77 Extreme6 has Mini PCI Express slot.

Contrary to popular belief, 5.0 GHz is no faster than 2.4 GHz. Wireless N supports 5.0 GHz to free up the congestion on 2.4 GHz. If set up properly the speed between 2.4 GHz and 5.0 GHz is very similar. 5.0 GHz has a much shorter wireless range than 2.4 GHz. Intel 4965AGN supports Wireless N 5.0 GHz and it is standard PCI Express x1.

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-4965AGN-PCI-E-300M-Antenna/dp/B005I7MCAG
Edited by trumpet-205 - 3/25/12 at 5:17pm
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post #77 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post

Haswell chipset (Lynx Point) has six USB 3.0 ports and six SATA III ports. USB 2.0 will be used for remaining ports (6-8). I guess one reason for this is because USB 3.0 needs more connections.
As for Thunderbolt, until it gets cheaper and widely available, you will still only see them at very high end MB. Upcoming MSI Z77-GD80 has Thunderbolt support. I have only seen ASRock Z77 Extreme6 has Mini PCI Express slot.
Contrary to popular belief, 5.0 GHz is no faster than 2.4 GHz. Wireless N supports 5.0 GHz to free up the congestion on 2.4 GHz. If set up properly the speed between 2.4 GHz and 5.0 GHz is very similar. 5.0 GHz has a much shorter wireless range than 2.4 GHz. Intel 4965AGN supports Wireless N 5.0 GHz and it is standard PCI Express x1.
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-4965AGN-PCI-E-300M-Antenna/dp/B005I7MCAG

The reason why I need 5GHz wireless is because in our neighborhood, I can pick up at least 10 different wireless routers on various devices and computers, some with almost full signal strength. I've noticed, especially when I get about 20ft from the router, there's much more noise in the signal and I get intermediate signal interruptions. And since my computer is less than 10ft away from the wireless router, 5GHz will be fine for my situation. Of course I'll still use 2.4GHz on devices that are incompatible with 5GHz, but for my desktop, where putting a wired connection in is virtually impossible without doing some damage (computer is located a little off from below the router in the basement, but have to go through a floor, a wall and a finished ceiling with solid 2x12 studs in a late 70's construction house) wireless is my only solution.

On my current motherboard, the Maximus III Formula, I have no available PCI-e slot as I have devices that are occupying the space, or soon will occupy it. I mean, I would like to have a mPCI-e port on a new motherboard as it'll free up a PCI-e slot, but if even if I still don't, it'll be fine with me.

Thunderbolt, I knew it was only going to be in high-range motherboards, as that's what I'll be getting anyways when I upgrade. I'm not expecting it to be on Intel's entire chipset lineup until at least 2015, or if they decide to sneak it onto the Broadwell chipset in 2014. (Touting PCI-e 3.0 and full USB 3.0 support with Ivy Bridge, so they need something to market Broadwell with to make it worth an upgrade.)
Edited by Lareson - 3/25/12 at 8:37pm
post #78 of 84
You can get creative and use PCIe x1 riser cable to get that PCIe x1 slot underneath your GPU. Then either use the card I have linked or get this adapter.

41XNRLPw74L.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/MiniPCI-E-to-PCI-E-Wireless-Adapter/dp/B003MMY14Y
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post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post

You can get creative and use PCIe x1 riser cable to get that PCIe x1 slot underneath your GPU. Then either use the card I have linked or get this adapter.
(IMG)
http://www.amazon.com/MiniPCI-E-to-PCI-E-Wireless-Adapter/dp/B003MMY14Y

Eh, thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not planning on upgrading my WiFi until my new setup. Mainly it's my farther away devices and ones that are picking up several connections that are having the noise issues, my desktop connection is fine at the moment. I know my next motherboard might not have a PCI slot on it for this WiFi card, hence why I'm looking into it, but something I'm not spending $60+ on right now. Would like to have a mPCI-e slot for it on my new motherboard, but if there's not one on there when that time comes, it's not the end of the world for me.
post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post

Haswell chipset (Lynx Point) has six USB 3.0 ports and six SATA III ports. USB 2.0 will be used for remaining ports (6-8). I guess one reason for this is because USB 3.0 needs more connections.
As for Thunderbolt, until it gets cheaper and widely available, you will still only see them at very high end MB. Upcoming MSI Z77-GD80 has Thunderbolt support. I have only seen ASRock Z77 Extreme6 has Mini PCI Express slot.
Contrary to popular belief, 5.0 GHz is no faster than 2.4 GHz. Wireless N supports 5.0 GHz to free up the congestion on 2.4 GHz. If set up properly the speed between 2.4 GHz and 5.0 GHz is very similar. 5.0 GHz has a much shorter wireless range than 2.4 GHz. Intel 4965AGN supports Wireless N 5.0 GHz and it is standard PCI Express x1.
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-4965AGN-PCI-E-300M-Antenna/dp/B005I7MCAG

I read somewhere (where is somewhere now? thinking.gif ) that Haswell will only have USB 3.0 and SATA III. USB 2.0 & SATA II to be phased out, and yes high end to have Thunderbolt.
If it remains true like the article I read, I would be 100% ok with that.
    
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