Originally Posted by illum
You cannot push down profits, it is the way of capitalism. Either we have to change, I.E become less greedy(impossible) or learn to live with it.
I myself count myself lucky that i was born to my parents(well atleast my father) and then go my merry way and make money however possible. I as a single person cannot change this way, so till it does i will do what must be done to thrive.
First let me suggest the "greed" is not impossible to extinguish. Greed is a human condition that is CELEBRATED in this system, you yourself celebrate it by pretending that it is so inherently human that we are incapable of getting over it. That is a fallacy. As for the last point, basic transformational change only happens at the level of the individual. The fact that you recognize the system as flawed, yet trap yourself in the mindset of it's unbreakable hold on humanity is a condition that makes it impossible to change. Slavery had a hold on mankind, feudalism as well, I could go on, fact is we create this world, not it creating us(besides the materials we take a transform tem into whatever).
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm
Well it isn't in America. Give the person standing in a line at a Salvation Army trying to get a pair a shoes for their children this opportunity and many would jump on it...at least the smarter ones. I sure know I would. People need to learn to work again. I've already done things like working a full time job at night and a part time job in the day, and granted...I did get a 15 minutes break a couple times a day; it was still hot sweaty, back breaking work. I know the average US citizen would not have lasted a day in. Plus I was attending college! and I survived without killing myself or dying from working. Look at some of the trouble going on right now in the South. Due to new immigration laws a lot of farms can't get workers. US workers will try the job and then leave after a week. This attitude that we Americans shouldn't have to work hard needs to disappear and fast.
Give it some time...one day people will be begging for work conditions like this since there would at least be work. The lifestyle that most of the "Western World" has grown accustomed to is not sustainable. It is becoming more and more official that the newest generation of children in the US are not going to see the same quality of life that their parents have right now and I hate it. I look at my kids and hate it and there is nothing I can do about it, but try to instill some work ethics in them. This is the first time in history that this has happened. Not even the Great Depression had this effect.
And yes, things need to get better in China and they are, but at the same point things need to get worse every where else, or else things will get REALLY worse.
Add still...if it truly is THAT bad in this ONE factory...then they should leave and try for something else. We are talking about what? 10,000? 20,000 workers? Maybe not even that many...I know I've read the number but I can't remember it right now and it isn't important. The point is that there all sort of other existing jobs in China that they can at least attempt to get. If you don't like where you are, only you you can change it. It might mean sacrificing a lot, but it will get you out and if that is your goal than do whatever it takes to get there.
You seem very confused. As a point of fact, Americans work harder than they have in a century. Just look at the numbers, we are also 100x MORE productive as well. Yet you say we need to learn to work more? How? 60 hour work weeks? All of this of course smacks into the wall of the wealth we have created as a country. It is enough to pay every family of 4 100k for 20 hours of work. Think of that, that tells me the problem is NOT we don't "work hard" or any other propaganda that you have been fed. The system is inherently unequal, and as such you get conditions that you seem to dispise while praise at the same time? "Americans would be begging for jobs like this when things get bad" What? Have we lost all sense of what lead to this country? The age of enlightenment ideals? It's sad.
The rest of your post smacks of extreme ignorance, this is not one factory, it's indicative of all of the developing world, they are exploited so we can consume cheaply. To suggest they just go to another job is as stupid as saying that 120 years ago in America, when people coming off the farms had no choice BUT to work once they arrived in the cities. You give your opinions on these things in the comfort of deep-seated ignorance, and it's a problem you should remedy post haste with some actual education on labor, and history in general of capitalist society/.
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric
Yeah, congratulations. And your labor movement that you revere so highly is also almost single-handedly responsible for driving most manufacturing jobs out of the country. The Unionization of American workers strangled the businesses that were employing them to the point of closing or outsourcing. I'm sure the millions of unemployed and unskilled laborers would thank your Union "ancestors" for the great work hours and conditions if only they could ever actually, you know, find jobs....
I love this argument. It makes no sense at all. The US had a peak of unionization in the 1950s(America's golden age for many) that number stood around 53%, since that time it has dropped shaply, now private unionization is at 7% of the workforce. You are chasing a red herring, and you have been fooled by it. Look what happened to England with Margaret Thatcher, she destroyed the unions in England in the name of privatization and "free market principals" HAHA!. The result? Britain now longer MAKES ANYTHING, they became a paper pusher and since the whole system collapsed 3 years ago they are in serious trouble, worse still is they still think themselves a "power" and are being increasingly left behind in the EU, after all England is an island, that got it's raise to power through wool, and later naval might.
You confuse to historical events for the causes of your scorn for labor unions. You should learn some more about the 70's and how it changed America, and the cause was NOT unions, far from it. It's amazing how unions are demonized. They deserve it for many reasons, but not the ones you speak of. Unions never should have been about better wages, it should have been about having control in the company. Oh well.
We are learning, Coops are one of the answers, you should check them out.