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[Xbit]: Intel Core i7-3820 vs. Core i7-2700K and Core i7-3930K - Page 6

post #51 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

huh? that is about PCIe 3.0 that other platforms [will] have too. And even PCIe 3.0 makes no difference for even 7970 crossFire.
And quad-channel memory for a quad-core? big waste of money and resources...

PCIe 3 doubles the bandwidth of PCIe 2. Although current gen GPUs may not need it at 16x or 8x it could help tremendously when running multi-gpu setups on a board that doesn't have NF200 or enough lanes to give every card enough bandwidth. With PCIe 3, 4x lanes are equivalent to 8x lanes on PCIe 2.
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post #52 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Listing a CPUs TDP is useless. The Celeron Dual Core E3200, 2.4 Ghz, 1 MB of L2 cache, 800 Mhz FSB has the same 65w TDP as the Core 2 Duo E8600, 3.33 Ghz, 6 Mb of L2 cache, 1333 Mhz FSB. Do you really think the Celeron uses the same amount of power as the Core 2 Duo ? The same can be said for the Core 2 Quad Q8200 versus the Core 2 Quad Q9650. 95w for both, meaningless otherwise. Intel just does it because it's easier to standardize cooler requirements, case requirements, etc for their partners and to also make room for variations between each CPU. Go look at how Intel did it in their Pentium 4 478 days. Each CPU speed has its own TDP.
The Core i7 920 also has the same 130w as the Core i7 965 Extreme Edition. They do not use the same amount of power at their respecitve clockspeeds, do they ?
What do you mean Quad Channel required ? You can use single channel, dual channel or triple channel if you like. You don't have to use the four channels.
There is no Quicksync because there is no IGPU. Quicksync makes use of the processing units in the GPU, so if you don't have the GPU you can't have QuickSync. Why would you need QuickSync or an integtrated GPU in an enthusiast platform ?
AMD already has the same funcionality in their new HD 7000 series, and Nvidia will probably have the same with Kepler. Besides, for anyone using a Z68 platform, using Quicksync along with a discrete GPU is a suboptimal experience. That whole Lucid Logix affair is a mess and it impacts gaming performance. Intel should allow you to use QuickSync without a monitor attached to the integrated GPUs output, that is, use the feature just as you can use MMX, SSE, AVX, etc.
Locked multiplier ? Did you even read the article ? It's partially unlocked up to 43x and on top of that you can adjust the BCLK strap. You can use 100 Mhz, 125, 166 and 250 Mhz, so you can reach overclocks similar to those of Sandy Bridge. Anand already said that in his review last year. He was able to get his sample stable at 4.75 Ghz.

Of course you can use single channel but you would be taking a performance hit...
The 2600K is actually 65W when the iGPU is not in use.
You don't need a monitor plugged in to the mobo video port... That's what dummy plugs are for.
Of course Quicksync requires an iGPU. Who doesn't know that already?
I use Quicksync all the time. There's zero performance hit. What are you talking about? I don't game on the iGPU... You don't use Lucid while gaming...
125Mhz is the max that will keep the PCIe and DMI within spec. You're not going to be able to use 250Mhz. You can't hit 4.5Ghz either. Only 4.625 and 4.75. You're not going to reach similar overclocks as the 2600K which can easily hit 5Ghz on air.

I don't see any reason to waste money on the 3820. The OC ability is limited, no iGPU and no Quicksync.
Edited by PoopaScoopa - 1/29/12 at 6:04pm
post #53 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shozzking View Post

PCIe 3 doubles the bandwidth of PCIe 2. Although current gen GPUs may not need it at 16x or 8x it could help tremendously when running multi-gpu setups on a board that doesn't have NF200 or enough lanes to give every card enough bandwidth. With PCIe 3, 4x lanes are equivalent to 8x lanes on PCIe 2.

read more carefully before answering. Not only x79 has PCIe 3.0
Edited by Ha-Nocri - 1/29/12 at 4:39pm
post #54 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion49 View Post

I could use one right now, at this very second. I don't do encoding or need a monster hexa-core SB-E processor, but I would like to run 120hz surround without resorting to an NF200 chip to get enough GPU ponies on my board. It would be a side-step from my 2500k, but at the same time the CPU is cheap enough compared to the six core chips that I could justify slapping IB-E in there when it eventually comes out.
This is exactly why I want it, my X58 setup lasted a long time and I really wish I had kept it to this day but financial issues changed my mind on that one. Also, excellent use of Unobtainium in your sig rig thumb.gif

that is true only if you plan to have 3 high-end cards in SLI/CF. For 2 cards x8 is enough, especially PCIe 3.0
post #55 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

read more carefully before answering. Not only x79 has PCIe 3.0

I never said that only X79 has PCIe 3, I only said that there is a point in having PCIe 3.
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post #56 of 86
I'm really considering getting a new Z68 board with PCIe 3.0 for an IB drop-in on release (I intend to build a secondary rig with the Sabertooth and 2600K from my current sig-rig). Wouldn't that ultimately be a better option than going X79 both financially and performance-wise (mostly gaming and general computing)?
post #57 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

that is true only if you plan to have 3 high-end cards in SLI/CF. For 2 cards x8 is enough, especially PCIe 3.0

And since that is exactly what I plan to be doing, it has definite purpose for me. I don't understand why the idea of a CPU that performs between a 2500k and 2600k with an advantageous motherboard setup bothers people so much. Seems sensible enough to me, a gateway to the X79 platform without paying through the nose for a CPU you may not even fully utilize.
post #58 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

huh? that is about PCIe 3.0 that other platforms [will] have too. And even PCIe 3.0 makes no difference for even 7970 crossFire.
And quad-channel memory for a quad-core? big waste of money and resources...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha-Nocri View Post

read more carefully before answering. Not only x79 has PCIe 3.0

Ivy Brige will have PCIe 3.0 but will only have 16 lanes, whereas the Core i7 3820 has 40. Big difference when it comes to Crossfire and SLI'ng the new HD 7970 cards and future Kepler cards. Right now the difference may not be that big, but with three cards for example, you will start noticing. And as more powerful cards are released, think about in a year, the bigger the advantage will be.

As for the quad channel, you are getting the most out of 4 GB sticks. Besides, think of it as the platform and not the chip only. With an X79 platform you will be able to upgrade to a 22nm 6 core Ivy Bridge-E in a year or two, and by then a six core CPU will make much more sense than it does now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion49 View Post

I could use one right now, at this very second. I don't do encoding or need a monster hexa-core SB-E processor, but I would like to run 120hz surround without resorting to an NF200 chip to get enough GPU ponies on my board. It would be a side-step from my 2500k, but at the same time the CPU is cheap enough compared to the six core chips that I could justify slapping IB-E in there when it eventually comes out.
This is exactly why I want it, my X58 setup lasted a long time and I really wish I had kept it to this day but financial issues changed my mind on that one. Also, excellent use of Unobtainium in your sig rig thumb.gif

Thanks! thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post

Of course you can use single channel but you would be taking a performance hit...
The 2600K is actually 65W when the iGPU is not in use. This 3820 is not drawing the same power as the 2600K...
You don't need a monitor plugged in to the mobo video port... That's what dummy plugs are for.
Of course Quicksync requires an iGPU. Who doesn't know that already?
I use Quicksync all the time. There's zero performance hit. What are you talking about? I don't game on the iGPU... You don't use Lucid while gaming...
125Mhz is the max that will keep the PCIe and DMI within spec. You're not going to be able to use 250Mhz. You can't hit 4.5Ghz either. Only 4.625 and 4.75. You're not going to reach similar overclocks as the 2600K which can easily hit 5Ghz on air.
I don't see any reason to waste money on the 3820. The OC ability is limited, no iGPU and no Quicksync.

You know pefectly what you said and what I meant. You said "Quad channel memory required", when it is not required. And don't pick the one example where it will take a performance hit. I was saying you can use single, dual and triple channel if you want, meaning you can use it in a dual channel configuration just like you can use Sandy Bridge right now. Use 2x 4GB sticks right now for example, upgrade with an additional 2 x 4 GB sticks later for a total of 16 GB.

The core i7 3820 does not have a GPU and the added PCIe lanes and additional memory channels don't add up to 130w. It's not the same but it's not the difference between a 95w and a 130w TDP CPU as you were implying.

You can read it on Anand's review:
Quote:
Power consumption at idle is a bit higher than the LGA-1155 options, but that's largely negligible since we're talking about two different platforms here. Power draw under load is slightly higher than the 2600K and a lot lower than the 3960X for obvious reasons.

420

420

3.2w at load difference between a 2600k and a 3820. That is hardly consistent with a 130w TDP and you know it. They could have labeled this as 95w TDP CPU if they wanted, but the fact is this is for the enthusiast platform, so they label it the same as the six core CPUs.

Quote:
and no Quicksync or iGPU @ 130W

What I said about QuickSync and the integrated GPU was because you phrased it like this. Or did you mean that the CPU could have an integrated GPU without Quicksync like the Celerons ? That would make even less sense.

The performance hit I'm talking about has to do with using QuickSync on a gaming PC. If you have a discrete card and use QuickSync with the Lucid Logix arrangement you have a performance penalty in gaming with the discrete card(s) because of how the system works, routing the graphics calls from the integrated GPU to the discrete GPU(s).

Adding a dummy plug like you said only further tells that Intel's implementation of QuickSync, which is a very useful feature, is less than optimal like I said.

Edit: Adding to that, like I said previously, the new Radeon HD 7970 already features a similar feature, and my bet is that Kepler will too, so you have alternatives to QuickSync when building a new system.

Not all 2600k's can reach 5 Ghz, much less on air. The 2700k's yes and with lower voltages than the 2600k's that do, but not all 2600k's and especially not the ones that are being sold after the 2700k.

What are you saying about 125 Mhz being the limit for keeping the PCIe and DMI within spec ? This is not Sandy Bridge and that would actually be around 103-105 Mhz in that case.
Quote:
With Sandy Bridge E, overclocking changes a bit. The clock generator is still mostly impervious to significant bus clock changes, however you're now able to send a multiple of its frequency to the CPU if you so desire. The options available are 100MHz, 125MHz, 166MHz and 250MHz.
- Anand's Core i7 3960 review.

You can fine tune the frequency you want on the i7 3820 by changing the multiplier in addition to changing the BCLK multiplier. 125 Mhz is the one used by the reviewers because it's the one most people will realistically use with a higher CPU multiplier. Yes, you can use the 250 Mhz option, just use a lower multiplier for the CPU. It can go as low as 12.

Besides, Anand got it to work at 4.875 Ghz, just not stably. He didn't try any form of exotic cooling nor any high end non Intel motherboard. Besides, the overclocking potential of his sample is not indicative of 100% of the chips, especially since it may have been a C1 stepping, and C2 steppings may overclock a little better.
Edited by tpi2007 - 1/29/12 at 5:46pm
 
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post #59 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

...
You can fine tune bthe frequency you want on the i7 3820 by changing the multiplier in addition to changing the BCLK multiplier. 125 Mhz is the one used by the reviewers because it's the one most people will realistically use with a higher CPU multiplier. Yes, you can use the 250 Mhz option, just use a lower multiplier for the CPU. It can go as low as 12.
Besides Anand got it to work at 4.875 Ghz, just not stably. He didn't try any form of exotic cooling nor any high end non Intel motherboard. Besides, the overclocking potential of his sample is not indicative of 100% of the chips, especially since it may have been a C1 stepping, and C2 steppings may overclock a little better.

While I agree with almost the entirety of your post thumb.gif, the underlined part may not be quite true. Most of the posts I've seen suggest that the 125 MHz option works on almost all CPUs. The 166 MHz strap is considerably trickier to get working, and it appears that only a subset of CPUs are capable of booting at that strap ratio, no matter the multiplier. I have never seen anyone get the 250 MHz strap ratio working.
post #60 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by gplnpsb View Post

While I agree with almost the entirety of your post thumb.gif, the underlined part may not be quite true. Most of the posts I've seen suggest that the 125 MHz option works on almost all CPUs. The 166 MHz strap is considerably trickier to get working, and it appears that only a subset of CPUs are capable of booting at that strap ratio, no matter the multiplier. I have never seen anyone get the 250 MHz strap ratio working.

Thanks!

Hmm, that is interesting. Has anybody come forward with a possible explanation of why that is the case ? Could it be becauese it messes with what would otherwise be idle multipliers ? Perhaps the Bios'es need some fine tuning that hasn't been made yet because of lack of demand. After all, the two CPUs currently being sold have unlocked multipliers, making the BCLK multiplier adjustments a bit of a curiosity only.
 
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