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help with silverstone ft02b with window- want it to be more silent - Page 4

post #31 of 38
Also, one comment about two issues in this thread. There IS a silverstone case thread. http://www.overclock.net/t/408195/the-silverstone-case-owners-club

Tangentially relevant to that last point and still relevant to another about heat generation and the passive heat sinks on those GPUs - there's a post on page 252 regarding the performance of various heat sink types in a vertical position. http://www.overclock.net/t/408195/the-silverstone-case-owners-club/2510#post_15281832

The upshot is that having horizontal heat sink fins and vertical heat pipes usually performs worse in a vertical position, whereas heat sinks which have vertical fins and horizontal pipes perform better. Supposedly it's something about the vapor and condensation points and where they are in the vapor chamber, but I think it's just because horizontal fins don't work so hot. So...if you could find a GPU heatsink somewhere that had pipe/fin orientation opposite to that, your gpu temps probably wouldn't get NEARLY that high.
Edited by pfunkmort - 2/10/12 at 1:33am
 
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post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfunkmort View Post

The upshot is that having horizontal heat sink fins and vertical heat pipes usually performs worse in a vertical position, whereas heat sinks which have vertical fins and horizontal pipes perform better. Supposedly it's something about the vapor and condensation points and where they are in the vapor chamber, but I think it's just because horizontal fins don't work so hot. So...if you could find a GPU heatsink somewhere that had pipe/fin orientation opposite to that, your gpu temps probably wouldn't get NEARLY that high.

a heatpipe is essentially a closed circuit passive phase change engine. the physics behind it is based on the heat of vaporization, heat capacity of a liquid, capillary action or more specifically the surface tension of a liquid and gravity. they all play a big factor in how well a heat pipe works. the biggest factor that affects how we look at heatpipe is gravity due to the orientation of how the components are mounted in a FT02.

generally speaking. modern day GPU's are NOT designed to be mounted vertically and very few aftermarket gpu coolers actually work well in the FT02. the IDEAL cooler for the FT02 would have horizontal fin configuration like this (also know as external exhaust configuration due the the fact that air flows out the back with this type of fin configuration)

450

notice, when mounted vertically, there are 2 heatpipes located above the GPU mounting point and the fins make direct contact with the heat block mount of the gpu? this will provide the best results for the FT02. the 3 heatpiples below the mounting point of the gpu will have worse and worse performance due to gravity fighting against the capillary action of the heatpipe and the heat source being above the cooling source. in this configuraion, it renders the lower 2 heatpipes practically useless due to its large distance away from the heat source. however, due to its design, it would still make better cooling then most other aftermarket designs. UNFORTUNATELY, this design has not been updated for modern day GPU's and practically ALL modern day high performance GPU cooler use the vertical fin configuration (or internal exhaust fin configuration) like this

450

which when mounted vertically forces all of the liquid to drain to the bottom of the cooler and have little chance of being evaporated by the GPU hence totally defeats the purpose of heatpipe physics.


essentially, until there is an updated external exhaust design gpu cooler, we will have to suffer from less then ideal cooling then conventional cases. however, since the FT02 is such a superior air cooling case to begin with, we see little of the ill effect from this drastic penalty in heatpipe physics.

edit: spelling and grammer
Edited by psyclum - 2/10/12 at 2:11am
post #33 of 38
Right. And +rep for the lengthy explanation, but I think there's also something said in that article about having some form of metal wick heat pipe (e.g., in an MSI lightning) that helps deal with heat distribution vs simply having a vapor chamber, which is seen in most coolers. I only bring it up to give a complete picture.
 
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post #34 of 38
all "heatpipe" contain wick inside. there are currently 3 common types of heatpipes in use. Metal Sintered Powder, grooved, and metal mesh all with varying degree of effectiveness, however, they will not help liquid travel up 5 inchs of vertical pipe:D too much gravity to contend with. generally speaking heatpipe can easily travel up maybe an inch and a half maybe 2 inches against gravity, anything more then that, it's not happening... easiest way to test this is to take a paper towel and dip the bottom of it into a glass of water, see how far the water is sucked vertically up by the paper towel before it wont go up any further due to gravity. some materials work better then others, some liquid work better then others, however they all have to contend with gravity and will only travel so far up.
post #35 of 38
Well, then I was misinformed about the wicks inside the majority of coolers. All this would be so much simpler if everything ran at 110 C instead of 60-80 and we could just be talking about 100% vapor. But I guess even then having the pipes below the GPU isn't going to be effective no matter how you slice it.
 
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post #36 of 38
having pipes under the gpu isn't a huge problem, but having the heatpipe travel too much vertical distance below the gpu is a problem. if you look at the heatpipe orientation of a typical machine, the liquid does not have to travel more then 2 inchs up towards the heat source, that is within the capabilities of the wick and should work, but in an orientation where the liquid has to travel up more then that, you'd be better off with conventional heatsink rather then heatpipe based heatsink.

currently the reference cooler and the HIS iceQ turbo

293

based coolers seems to be most suited for vertical mounting orientation of the FT02/RV02. as you can see in the picture, when mounted vertically, the bottom heatpipes aren't really that far from the heat source (less then 2 inchs) so the wick can do its job and return the liquid back to the heat source. unfortunately, coolers like this one doesn't work anywhere near as well as the more premium coolers like the thermalright shaman or the accelero xtreme plus 2
post #37 of 38
Well, then how do you explain the msi lightning performing so uniformly when half of its heat pipes are 3-5 inches long? Is the GPU contact just so well connected to the heat sink and the fans so good that it simply doesn't matter?
 
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post #38 of 38
it works well because FT02/RV02 itself works very well. the distance between intake and exhaust is one of the shortest in it's size category and the airflow inside the case is the most direct of all cases on the market today. in most cases, air has to make a few turns and pass through a HDD cage between the intake and the exhaust. in the RV02/FT02 it's a straight shot from bottom to top.

I did mention in a previous post that due to the superior design of the case, we as owners see little of the ill effects from the heatpipe orientation penalty.

HOWEVER, that's not to say that we wouldn't see even greater benefits if a video card was designed to work with vertical orientation mount as in the FT02/RV02. obviously it would be a none reference design where the VRM and GPU are mounted alot closer to the power plugs on the card to make room for heatpipes more towards the exhaust side of the card. obviously the video RAM would have to be moved towards the exhaust but overall if things are designed with a triple slot configuration, it might even be possible to make it passive and just let the AP181 do its work:D it would look alittle bit like this,

551

but a triple slot design and a shroud around the cooling fins to create a wind tunnel effect.

unfortunately Silverstone isn't in the video card making business:( but i think there would be a market for a card with such design since it would benefit not just silverstone cases but any case with good airflow design.
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