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[Various] HD7950 Reviews - Page 11

post #101 of 281
They are all good cards. I'm itching to upgrade to two HD7970s but I'll see what Nvidia gets out the door.
 
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post #102 of 281
nice performance :O just 2/3 fps difference from the 7970
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post #103 of 281
You guys are comparing price of 7950 3gb vs 580 1.5gb. Don't you feel a little jipped by the 580's measly 1.5gb? People expecting 580 killers (poetic license hehe) to cost less than 580s themselves... seriously?
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post #104 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by routek View Post

That aspect is good but that's 28nm for you.
Aside from power consumption, this GPU makes the 580 owners look pretty good now. They've had this performance for a year or more at $450-500. Before this 7950, the 580 price for what you got was considered outrageous, actually when you look at the performance, cooler and die, it was a good price if you want to clap this 7950. AMD 7950 costs the same a year later for the same performance but cost nothing like a 580 to produce so if AMD sell this at this price they will laugh all the way until nvidia actually do something.
I'll definitely applaud AMD for pulling the wool over peoples eyes. I'm not exactly thrilled of the prospect of a year down the line AMD launch a GPU that costs and performs almost same as the 580 and actually loses in some tests and heavy image quality settings but many are rejoicing. All I can see is AMD have validated the GTX 580 and turned an outrageous card into the norm and even had the gall to release something a year later that cost and performs the same lol.

"Pull the wool over peoples eyes"? This is how this has always worked. The 7970 and 7950 have the best performance right now. Maybe not by a huge margin (although the 7970 is significantly faster than the gtx580) but the 7950 is on average faster than the 580 for about the same price. Nvidia has really no room for a surprise price cut so until they release their own 28nm products AMD will have the ability to charge a premium for their cards.

Remember when Nvidia launched the gtx280? That launched at $650! because Nvidia didn't see AMD competing with it, when it became obvious that they could compete with it it got an overnight price drop to $499. That is $150 pure margin on top of whatever they were still making at $499.

So this is how the business is run and how it has always been run. Both of these companies are making and selling graphics cards for one reason, to make money. Market realities coupled with production costs equals price. If you are buying right now what are you going to purchase, a gtx580 for ~$500 or a 7950 for ~$450? Throwing out brand preference you'd get the one that was cheaper and had similar to better performance, the 7950.
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post #105 of 281
Look at this Sapphire OC'd version ($30 more than the reference model RRP). It goes from 900mhz to a 1199mhz core with all this software that doesn't completely support it yet (afaik) and people are saying it trades blows with the GTX580? 800mhz is what the card is set to at stock on a reference model.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/51112-sapphire-hd-7950-dual-fan-oc-review-13.html

Not to mention the really low temperatures and noise...

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/51112-sapphire-hd-7950-dual-fan-oc-review-12.html


Of course we all want the price to be as low as possible, but realistically, with all the uncertainty surrounding Kepler, it's a good business move imo to match the prices of Nvidia's current best offerings. The 7950 is without a doubt a better card than the 580, and it SHOULD be priced lower ideally, but without any competition from Nvidia that's probably not going to happen.

Remember that currently, anyone looking to buy a card around the $500 range has got either the 580 or the 7950, and the 7950 is without a doubt the better buy for the price. So a rational buyer would choose the 7950 and AMD grab the extra profit from the higher price.

I'd really love to pick one of these up for around $300 or so, though... redface.gif
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post #106 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by routek View Post

That aspect is good but that's 28nm for you.
Aside from power consumption, this GPU makes the 580 owners look pretty good now. {snip}.
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

This
If this card was $400 or less, then I would applaud AMD. But we are talking a year later, with roughly the same performance as a 580, for the same price. How is this so amazing? {snip}

Before you go patting yourselves on the back consider these points:
  • The GTX580 released at $500, not $450, so the release price was slightly higher. If the same holds true for AMD the 7950 will drop to $400 soon(ish)
  • The GTX580 is a year old with mature drivers, the 7950 is new arch with new drivers; it's performance will surely improve over the next year
  • The 7950 can OC a lot better, taking it further above the OC'ed 580
  • The 7950 is not the top end card of the 7xxx series and yet it is competing with the top end GTX5xx (single GPU)
  • The 7950 has way lower power consumption, so the total cost of ownership is going to be a lot lower
  • Currently AMD have the lead, so they can charge what they want (up to a point). Remember they are in buisiness to make money, not to make you smile.

I'm not saying that the 580 is a bad card, the fact that it held the performance crown for so long reflects that, but times have moved on. Now we can achieve the same performance with less power, which is the way AMD (nee ATi) has always tried to go with GPUs, and when the next nVidia series hit I'm sure they will do what they always do; more performance for similar power and take the performance crown again. And I for one look forward to seeing what they come up with.

It is all a game, nothing wrong with one team being down at half time.
Edited by GingerJohn - 1/31/12 at 10:02am
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post #107 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer View Post

"Pull the wool over peoples eyes"? This is how this has always worked. The 7970 and 7950 have the best performance right now. Maybe not by a huge margin (although the 7970 is significantly faster than the gtx580) but the 7950 is on average faster than the 580 for about the same price. Nvidia has really no room for a surprise price cut so until they release their own 28nm products AMD will have the ability to charge a premium for their cards.
Remember when Nvidia launched the gtx280? That launched at $650! because Nvidia didn't see AMD competing with it, when it became obvious that they could compete with it it got an overnight price drop to $499. That is $150 pure margin on top of whatever they were still making at $499.
So this is how the business is run and how it has always been run. Both of these companies are making and selling graphics cards for one reason, to make money. Market realities coupled with production costs equals price. If you are buying right now what are you going to purchase, a gtx580 for ~$500 or a 7950 for ~$450? Throwing out brand preference you'd get the one that was cheaper and had similar to better performance, the 7950.

If I were buying right now, yes the 7950 is the choice to make. But there are people who have had that level of performance since they bought their 580. A long time ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerJohn View Post

Before you go patting yourselves on the back consider these points:
  • The GTX580 released at $500, not $450, so the release price was slightly higher. If the same holds true for AMD the 7950 will drop to $400 soon(ish)
  • The GTX580 is a year old with mature drivers, the 7950 is new arch with new drivers; it's performance will surely improve over the next year
  • The 7950 can OC a lot better, taking it further above the OC'ed 580
  • The 7950 is not the top end card of the 7xxx series and yet it is competing with the top end GTX5xx (single GPU)
  • The 7950 has way lower power consumption, so the total cost of ownership is going to be a lot lower
  • Currently AMD have the lead, so they can charge what they want (up to a point). Remember they are in buisiness to make money, not to make you smile.
I'm not saying that the 580 is a bad card, the fact that it held the performance crown for so long reflects that, but times have moved on. Now we can do the same performance with less power, which is the way AMD (nee ATi) has always tried to go with GPUs, and when the next nVidia series hit I'm sure they will do what they always do; more performance for similar power and take the performance crown again. And I for one look forward to seeing what they come up with.
It is all a game, nothing wrong with one team being down at half time.

Not really patting myself on the back, I am just making an observation. The performance of the 7950 is not to level I think it should be for its price. And for that matter, the 580 is way overdue for a price drop as well.
Edited by criminal - 1/31/12 at 10:04am
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post #108 of 281
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post #109 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

If I were buying right now, yes the 7950 is the choice to make. But there are people who have had that level of performance since they bought their 580. A long time ago.

And now you can have more performance for slightly more money with the 7970.
Quote:
Originally Posted by criminal View Post

Not really patting myself on the back, I am just making an observation. The performance of the 7950 is not to level I think it should be for its price. And for that matter, the 580 is way overdue for a price drop as well.

Yes, but it is priced at a point similar to it's direct performance competitor; the GTX580. If the 580 cost $300 then the 7950 would have launched at $300.

That the 580 has been at it's price point for so long is because it was the top single GPU so nVidia could pick the price point uncontested. With the 7xxx series that has now changed, so the 580 needs to be priced more competitively. If nVidia drop their prices you can bet that AMD will match them, and I am willing to bet that AMD can go a lot lower than nVidia on the 580 / 7950.

I know price matching competitors sucks, and it would be great if manufacturers priced their products at cost + reasonable profit, but that just isn't how it works. As long as AMD can sell at a higher price they will do so. It is really up to nVidia to drop the prices now.

Edit:

I am actually kind of agreeing with you, the 7950 is overpriced compared to what it can, and maybe should, be but the reason for that is that AMD can price it there and it will sell. In time the price will drop but it is up to nVidia to instigate it. Hopefully this will happen after the FC waterblocks start turning up and the reference designs are still available... thumb.gif
Edited by GingerJohn - 1/31/12 at 10:40am
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post #110 of 281
You nvidia fanboys are ridiculous.

Compared to the gtx 580, this card wins in EVERY category. Yes, even price.
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