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From the News section...Thoughts on Stallman's Law?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
In case you haven't seen Transhour's thread (which is in bright red) here's a link to the article in question...well it's kind of a opinion piece but anyway:
http://www.itworld.com/it-managementstrategy/244701/examining-stallmans-law

So what do you guys think? Is RMS right or is he still just out for attention(both)?
     
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post #2 of 17
Greetz
IMHO Stallman is right but simply because his statement is so inexact and open ended, but we all know what he means. The article is misguided in comparing Moore's Law to Stallman's since neither is really a Law to begin with, in the Scientific sense.

Despite that Moore's seems more like a Law because it's elements are easily quantifiable and therefore disprovable. If we choose "A" for Time in years and "B" for processor power the formula is 1A = 2B, extremely simple.

However Stallman's terms, especially "is an opening" are utterly unquantifiable and complex. One can imagine a situation where such openings occurred and no corporations employed them, and Stallman's statement would still be true since it only states that an opening occurs, not that corporations will utilize it. It is all about tendencies and trends and further qualified by the opening "While corporations dominate society and write the laws" since it can be argued even now that they do or don't with little resolution, since some people will refuse to admit that giving corporations the rights and privileges of individuals as well as corporate rights in addition to unlimited campaign funding at the very least make the playing field more than a half bubble off plumb.

So I vote for "tongue in cheek" since it is a reasonable assumption that Stallman, with his education and brains, knows the real definition of "Law". More people do NOT know this definition because a low percentage of the population are scientists of any sort.

For those here that don't know or need a refresher, this is an example of a fairly straightforward definition

What is a Law in Science?
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post #3 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet2 View Post

Greetz
IMHO Stallman is right but simply because his statement is so inexact and open ended, but we all know what he means. The article is misguided in comparing Moore's Law to Stallman's since neither is really a Law to begin with, in the Scientific sense.
Despite that Moore's seems more like a Law because it's elements are easily quantifiable and therefore disprovable. If we choose "A" for Time in years and "B" for processor power the formula is 1A = 2B, extremely simple.
However Stallman's terms, especially "is an opening" are utterly unquantifiable and complex. One can imagine a situation where such openings occurred and no corporations employed them, and Stallman's statement would still be true since it only states that an opening occurs, not that corporations will utilize it. It is all about tendencies and trends and further qualified by the opening "While corporations dominate society and write the laws" since it can be argued even now that they do or don't with little resolution, since some people will refuse to admit that giving corporations the rights and privileges of individuals as well as corporate rights in addition to unlimited campaign funding at the very least make the playing field more than a half bubble off plumb.
So I vote for "tongue in cheek" since it is a reasonable assumption that Stallman, with his education and brains, knows the real definition of "Law". More people do NOT know this definition because a low percentage of the population are scientists of any sort.
For those here that don't know or need a refresher, this is an example of a fairly straightforward definition
What is a Law in Science?
 


I hereby self appoint what i'm about to say, to that of absolute law: Richard Stallman is a  idiot.

 

formula:

 

RSM = ID10t

 

^you can't argue with that math. :)

 

I respect the man for the vision he has, but he just takes some of it to the extreme. He should just set back, punch out his code for emac's, and let the other side destroy themselves if he so believes it.

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post #4 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transhour View Post

formula:

RSM = ID10t

^you can't argue with that math. smile.gif

Sure can't.


But I agree, the guy (while being a great mind) does seem to take things to the extreme a bit.
post #5 of 17
Golly, nobody thought to post the silly thing being discussed!
Quote:
"While corporations dominate society and write the laws, each advance in technology is an opening for them to further restrict its users."

Clearly he is a pessimist and has a rather narrow viewpoint.

He uses "each" to mean "every" which is automatically wrong (in the "never say never" sense).

Further, he assumes a premise that has a lot of truth but is completely debatable, definitely not black and white, and certainly not cut and dried.

As a counter to his excessive pessimism, for example, the internet has provided an opening to groups like his GNU to get their stuff distributed much more widely than if they only had people carrying tapes from place to place. GNU and other open source software is developed much more widely and collaboratively than just by a cabal in a basement in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Has the "Arab Spring" been enabled by advances in technology to enable peoples to throw off restrictive dictatorships? Yes.

Numerous advances in technology are very disruptive to the corporations. To use an example from Stallman's own industry, IBM used to be the epitome of "the corporate man" corporation. Does IBM dominate society nearly as much as they used to? Nope.
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post #6 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansel View Post

Does IBM dominate society nearly as much as they used to? Nope.

IBM is still very much dominate. Just not in the consumer field. But in the corporate world they're still extremely large.
post #7 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

IBM is still very much dominate. Just not in the consumer field. But in the corporate world they're still extremely large.

IBM is still large, but in no way as dominant as they used to be. Not in the corporate world they once dominated.

The adjective you want is "dominant". The verb is "dominate".
Edited by Ansel - 1/31/12 at 1:40pm
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post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansel View Post

The adjective you want is "dominant". The verb is "dominate".
Dear god grammar nazi on the way thumb.gif

English is my 3rd language, and still better than most peoples.

Anyways, IBM is bigger than you think, and still innovating.
post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansel View Post

Golly, nobody thought to post the silly thing being discussed!
Clearly he is a pessimist and has a rather narrow viewpoint.
He uses "each" to mean "every" which is automatically wrong (in the "never say never" sense).
Further, he assumes a premise that has a lot of truth but is completely debatable, definitely not black and white, and certainly not cut and dried.
As a counter to his excessive pessimism, for example, the internet has provided an opening to groups like his GNU to get their stuff distributed much more widely than if they only had people carrying tapes from place to place. GNU and other open source software is developed much more widely and collaboratively than just by a cabal in a basement in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Has the "Arab Spring" been enabled by advances in technology to enable peoples to throw off restrictive dictatorships? Yes.
Numerous advances in technology are very disruptive to the corporations. To use an example from Stallman's own industry, IBM used to be the epitome of "the corporate man" corporation. Does IBM dominate society nearly as much as they used to? Nope.

One persons dictatorship is another democracy; case in point I think the US is less free than everyone realizes and more so now than before. But that's my view. To give a really cynical view I could almost argue that the "Arab spring" was indeed instigated/exacerbated by the west to further its interests and thus is using technology for corporate/wealthy interests(then again I'm pretty sure things must have been bad enough in those places that people finally decided to swap on group of power for another that might be nicer to them).

My counter is based on the anti-piracy actions. The restrictions on what a person can do with the material they bought and the forms of that material. Case in point I want and will pay for FLAC/any lossless but no one provides that in the mainstream. Just look at bluray...it doesn't work in Linux without a lot of hoop jumping. Finally, look at games...so much DRM abound that I have no interest in games because the bad experiences I've had in the past along with the annoyance of being punished for paying. Another example is Apple. I don't need to go on about a company pursing control/restricting the freedom of user. Ultimately it's definitely not a law and certainly just a Ansel points out it will never be cut and dry. But RMS does have a point I think in that we need to be wary of what they can and actually do. The power of Google, Apple, and others should never be ignored.

Really interesting posts from you guys.

PS: I wonder if he ever uses butterflies in programming...rolleyes.gif
     
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post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post

Anyways, IBM is bigger than you think, and still innovating.

IBM is still innovating, but they are far from dominant because they got disrupted many times over by being late to minicomputers and late to the internet and missing mobile devices entirely. One part of them did well with the early PCs (an IBM term) and then they gave the industry away to microsoft. Oracle ate their lunch in databases and SAP and other companies ate their dinner in their supposed forte, business software.
Quote:
Dear god grammar nazi on the way thumb.gif English is my 3rd language, and still better than most peoples.

You can take it as an opportunity to learn to be more articulate or you can take offense. It has nothing to do with the commendable number of languages you know or the commendable command of English as a third language that you have. It was a point offered with quite neutral tone of language, but if you are above constructive suggestions, then so be it. It is a common grammar error made by people who only know English which is undoubtedly who you picked it up from, since it is very prevalent in internet forums.
Edited by Ansel - 1/31/12 at 3:25pm
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