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post #21 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrak View Post


As for the Production/work environment crap, Debian is far from it, it is still bloated and the only difference between it and Ubuntu or Mint, is that you have to install your DE, after that you've got yourself a glorified Ubuntu. Arch/Gentoo/Slack/LFS are all equally capable of being mainstream work environment distros. It's all in how you set it up and the knowledge you obtain. I've been using my Arch install for 3+ years now, and before that I was using Mandrake for about 8-9 years. Any linux can be used mainstream, they're virtually all the same in the end. It's just how much freedom do you want and how optimized you want to get.

Yeah, Debian is the most widely used enterprise linux server OS because it's far from production quality, and is bloated. rolleyes.gif


FYI, it's impossible for something to become a "glorified" version of something else that is based upon it to begin with.


OP, what you have here is what we call an Arch-tard. Someone who relegates anything that isn't entirely source based to "crap" and insists that bleeding edge can easily be stable as a rock. The reason something becomes known for it's stability (like Debian, for example) is because it's tested, patch, re-tested rinse and repeat until it's rock solid. Bleeding edge by definition, is not tested to be rock solid.
    
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post #22 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by racer86 View Post

also how is the stability with the arch and gentoo distros would i loose any stability once everything is set up and ready to go?

A properly setup Gentoo would be about as solid as it gets. Arch is great and is stable but make sure to read about the updates prior to doing them a lot of things can and will break and you might be stuck just sitting there thinking "WTH am I going to do?!" I would recommend if you do proceed with Arch is to never do a pacman -Sc until you are very comfortable with everything (this clears out pacman cache), it will allow you to downgrade your system if something fails.

The closest thing to a non stable Debian besides actually using testing or unstable would be Linux Mint Debian (LDME) it will break and you can fix it easily.
Edited by Mr Pink57 - 2/2/12 at 9:58pm
post #23 of 67
Archlinux design is flawed. Unless you keep the entire system continuously up to date every time you need to install something new (which is tedious), expect things to break.

For example suppose you sync to a repo on the 1st of Jan. Then a month later you want to install something simple like a burning app. You proceed to install it only to discover that a few dependencies have been updated in the repo and pacman cannot find the version you need. So now your pacman index is out of date. So you go and do a full sync but the problem with this is if you do a full sync you better do a complete OS update else stuff will break spectacularly if you decide to just install a couple of stuff and have the entire system out of synch.

For me it seems rather impractical to be expected to update your entire system to install a small application. So ya use Arch if you enjoy doing full updates regularly.
post #24 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

Archlinux design is flawed. Unless you keep the entire system continuously up to date every time you need to install something new (which is tedious), expect things to break.
[snip]
That's the case with every package based distro. What you're talking about is a limitation with shared objects (.so) - which all distros use - rather than a pacman / Arch limitation.
post #25 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidMonkey View Post

OP, if you're on here long enough and try 100s of distros asking and learning questions, researching, as I did.... you'll come to trust Chemicalfan for all things Debian, and Enorbit2 for Slackware. Those guys know their sh post-flame-small.gif t for sure, and are happy to help when you get stuck on something, and wont make you feel like an idiot in the process. Kudos to them.

Wow, thanks for the huge compliment, but it might be a little misguided? I wouldn't class myself as a Debian or Ubuntu expert by any stretch - I learnt almost everything I know from the source-based Arch project I ran. I'd advise anyone serious about Linux to try the same, nothing like learning what makes a Linux system tick than manually installing everything (under the guidance of a package manager, from a pre-built shell). Sure, you could use Slack to acheive the same means, but Firefox 3 doesn't cut it for me tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTurtle View Post

OP, what you have here is what we call an Arch-tard. Someone who relegates anything that isn't entirely source based to "crap" and insists that bleeding edge can easily be stable as a rock. The reason something becomes known for it's stability (like Debian, for example) is because it's tested, patch, re-tested rinse and repeat until it's rock solid. Bleeding edge by definition, is not tested to be rock solid.

Kinda resent that, but I see your angle. Anyone that insists Arch is just as stable Debian or Slack, is a fool. It might be stable one day, but you do a "pacman -Syu" and you could be rendered with an unbootable mess. Playing Russian roulette with updates gets boring after a while, that's why I jumped back to Ubuntu (although I hate the bloat - my lsmod is nauseating compared to Arch)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBlame View Post

Archlinux design is flawed. Unless you keep the entire system continuously up to date every time you need to install something new (which is tedious), expect things to break.
For example suppose you sync to a repo on the 1st of Jan. Then a month later you want to install something simple like a burning app. You proceed to install it only to discover that a few dependencies have been updated in the repo and pacman cannot find the version you need. So now your pacman index is out of date. So you go and do a full sync but the problem with this is if you do a full sync you better do a complete OS update else stuff will break spectacularly if you decide to just install a couple of stuff and have the entire system out of synch.
For me it seems rather impractical to be expected to update your entire system to install a small application. So ya use Arch if you enjoy doing full updates regularly.

And that's hit the nail on the head. Stabilitity means that the system won't be toast after an update. It's a trade-off with having bleeding-edge, untested software. You pay your money, you take your choice.
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post #26 of 67
If you want to know how the linux system works then I would suggest LFS, Arch is good but being a rolling distro it has it's break points. Debian being the most stable is because they do not put up the package till it is tested/tried and given a stability / security mark.

first understand that the kernel is everything.
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post #27 of 67
Thread Starter 
wow thanks for all the input guys its definetly alot to think about

I really want whatever i go with to be good and stable as this will be my home workstation once i get it up and running. Sure ill have an windows install as a back up but i really want to use linux as my main os so stability is a big thing for me
post #28 of 67
I'm sorry, but recommending someone to go from Ubuntu to LFS isn't smart. It'd be like telling someone who's into climbing trees that the next step is the White Cliffs of Dover.

Taking stabililty into account, I couldn't recommend Arch. I'd have to recommend Slackware - it's harder than Arch to learn (but Enorbet2 is a GOD, so if you get stuck he'll help you out smile.gif), but it doesn't get more stable. Plus there's a -current tree with slightly more up-to-date software (but just as stable)
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post #29 of 67
You have to understand that all distro's are linux , so if someone tells you that this one is tougher or that one is tougher then that one then I would say the main thing about linux is the kernel. All basic commands are same, like suse has a command socklist to view sockets which other distros do not have. It depends on how the distro is setup. so you should learn the basic commands and the file structure.

For starters you could choose LMDE (that's if you are looking at just the desktop) this one is a tough nut and it is stable and quick.
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post #30 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by chemicalfan View Post

Sure, you could use Slack to acheive the same means, but Firefox 3 doesn't cut it for me tongue.gif

Greetz
I didnt want to derail or hijack the thread so I only quoted a small part to illustrate the misconceptions people have about Slackware, and probably all distros we don't use long enough to become proficient and comfortable. I don't understand the Firefox 3 comment since the whole point of a truly Vanilla system is that it is essentially compatible with everything. Slackware is that system. I am running v13.37 with gigabytes of addons including typing this in Firefox 9.0.1.

Because Slackware doesn't try to update any dependencies Firefox updates are trivial. All I need do is download the archive and decompress it in the directory of my choice and I use "/usr/lib/firefox" for my main. I say "main" because sometimes I have had more than one version available to run to compare before I decide to "upgrade". This is as simple as creating "/usr/lib/firefox_foo" in addition to "/usr/lib/firefox" and symlinking the executable to a differently named link eg: "usr/bin/firefox8" and "/usr/bin/firefox9". Once I've decided to upgrade I can either simply delete the older version or cut 'n paste it in the more generic "/usr/lib/firefox".... simply transplant - done thumb.gif

Because Firefox hasn't been twisted around by a distro to suit their dependency resolution issues I most often have upgrades running for weeks before so-called "managed" systems have theirs in repositories. I never have to wait on repositories. Same as with nVidia drivers, Flash, whatever, I go direct to the source. That's freedom along with stability and reliability. tongue.gif
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