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The #1 reason I keep having to run back to Windows...

post #1 of 47
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...ok, #2 if you count gaming:

Complete lack of any sort of standardization in Linux. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux...well, more correctly, I love the idea of Linux. Sure, I can dual boot Fedora and Windows 7 on my laptop without any trouble, but when I step outside the comfort zone of a self-contained desktop IDE in Linux, I feel like I need to be a rocket scientist to make anything work.

For example, I'd like to do some LAMP programming. I found some great stuff for setting up my LAMP platform (XAMPP is pretty slick), and that seems to work fine. However, when I tried to set up Symfony (framework for PHP), nothing worked the way it was supposed to. Allegedly, all I needed to do was download the .tgz file, extract it and start following the tutorial steps on the symfony-project website. Got it downloaded. Got it extracted. Was able to run symfony to report the version installed. However, when trying to create the tutorial project (jobeet), I received the error:
Code:
/usr/bin/env: php: No such file or directory

Now, I'm still a Linux noob, but /usr/bin/env looks like something that is expected to exist. It doesn't, and I have no idea why.

This is just one example of exactly the sort of thing I run into about 85% of the time I try to do anything beyond installing a Linux desktop IDE and browing the internet. This was with a Debian server, so I thought, what the heck, I'll try Ubuntu server - Ubuntu is supposed to be about as user-friendly as it gets, right? Wrong. I installed Ubuntu server, pretty much accepting all the default options. When it was complete, I found that it had configured the network to obtain an IP address from a DHCP server in a 10.x.x.x domain. Seriously.

I've said it before, but Microsoft can pretty much hang it's continued market share on two things - the Windows registry and the notion of setup.exe. The registry because it provides a standardized central location for pretty much all necessary information can be found and setup.exe because it makes installing applications pretty much a one step process. After that, it just works (usually).

I just never seem to get anything done in Linux beyond obnoxious amounts of research pertaining to getting something working properly that will hopefully let me get *started* doing something.

tl;dr - Linux has frustrated me once again. sozo.gif
post #2 of 47

Meh. I always find ways to fix this kind of stuff. Also it helps having a friend who is a linux dev and tech for a living.

 
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post #3 of 47
Ok, your problem isn't Linux, it's your perspective.

A lot of people have a fit when trying Linux because they expect it to "act" like Windows. It's not Windows. What you see as a weakness, many see as a great strength. Isn't the flexibility to do what you want the reason your trying Linux in the first place?

I started out on Linux and learned windows later. For me Windows is the odd one and I still can't use it for very long without becoming irritated that it doesn't work like my Macintosh. ( or like I think it should )

Be patient, you'll make it work and you'll be glad you stuck with it and learned a new way of doing things.

.02
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post #4 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

Ok, your problem isn't Linux, it's your perspective.
A lot of people have a fit when trying Linux because they expect it to "act" like Windows. It's not Windows.

And this is the reason that Linux is held back in today's consumer world. People grew up with Windows, and that's what they know.
post #5 of 47
Well, most people who use Linux don't care much about "user-friendliness" or "accessibility", they care about getting what they need done. Whether you should use linux depends what you want to get out of the OS.
    
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post #6 of 47
Agree 100%, Windows is SO much more straightforward than linux- and it runs my games too. setup.exe FTW
    
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post #7 of 47

I find this type of thing frustrating as well, OP. That and lack of viable software alternatives to what I use on Windows are the sole reasons I haven't fully switched over yet and probably won't for awhile. I'd love to drop Windows altogether but it just isn't realistic yet. sad-smiley-002.gif

 

Maybe Apple will release OS X as open source one of these days? lachen.giflachen.giflachen.giflachen.gif

post #8 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post

...ok, #2 if you count gaming:
Complete lack of any sort of standardization in Linux. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux...well, more correctly, I love the idea of Linux. Sure, I can dual boot Fedora and Windows 7 on my laptop without any trouble, but when I step outside the comfort zone of a self-contained desktop IDE in Linux, I feel like I need to be a rocket scientist to make anything work.
For example, I'd like to do some LAMP programming. I found some great stuff for setting up my LAMP platform (XAMPP is pretty slick), and that seems to work fine. However, when I tried to set up Symfony (framework for PHP), nothing worked the way it was supposed to. Allegedly, all I needed to do was download the .tgz file, extract it and start following the tutorial steps on the symfony-project website. Got it downloaded. Got it extracted. Was able to run symfony to report the version installed. However, when trying to create the tutorial project (jobeet), I received the error:
Code:
/usr/bin/env: php: No such file or directory
Now, I'm still a Linux noob, but /usr/bin/env looks like something that is expected to exist. It doesn't, and I have no idea why.
This is just one example of exactly the sort of thing I run into about 85% of the time I try to do anything beyond installing a Linux desktop IDE and browing the internet. This was with a Debian server, so I thought, what the heck, I'll try Ubuntu server - Ubuntu is supposed to be about as user-friendly as it gets, right? Wrong. I installed Ubuntu server, pretty much accepting all the default options. When it was complete, I found that it had configured the network to obtain an IP address from a DHCP server in a 10.x.x.x domain. Seriously.
No server works "out of the box". Not even Windows server.
If you wanted the same web app to run on Windows you'd still have to install WAMP / XAMPP and configure it all. Except if you were on Windows, you wouldn't just reformat it and install a different version of Windows in rage because it hadn't worked first time (like you did with Debian).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post

I've said it before, but Microsoft can pretty much hang it's continued market share on two things - the Windows registry and the notion of setup.exe.

The registry because it provides a standardized central location for pretty much all necessary information can be found and setup.exe because it makes installing applications pretty much a one step process. After that, it just works (usually).
the problem here is your mindset. You're trying to do things in "the Windows way". Linux isn't Windows.

First of all: all of Linux's config files should be stored in /etc/ - in effect, /etc/ is the Linux equivalent to Windows registry. Except being flat text files actually makes it easier to work with in the command line (bare in mind that most Linux servers will run without XWindows as a GUI is completely unnecessary for a server).

Next, installing apps on Linux is actually easier than Windows because you don't have setup.exe. Instead you have central repositories which you can search and install from. These are called package managers. All you need to do (in your instance) is type apt-get install name_of_software and Linux will automatically download, install and configure everything for you.

In fact, if you'd even bothered to read Symfony's website you'd see the instructions for installing on Debian and they recommend you use apt-get rather than downloading and installing manually:
Quote:
Linux installation

Some Linux distributions have symfony packages. As of now, packages have been created for Debian like distributions and SUSE.
Debian/Ubuntu package:

Add to your /etc/apt/sources.list:
Code:
deb http://www.symfony-project.org/get debian/
Run as root:
Code:
apt-get update
Install it:
Code:
apt-get install php5-symfony

^ This was found when I typed "symfony debian" into Google and was the top result. So there's really no excuse in you not checking that first when your manual install failed. (sorry if I sound harsh, but that would have been the bare minimum you'd have done if it was a Windows problem yet you didn't when using Linux).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimojo View Post

I just never seem to get anything done in Linux beyond obnoxious amounts of research pertaining to getting something working properly that will hopefully let me get *started* doing something.
tl;dr - Linux has frustrated me once again. sozo.gif
I'm not going to deny that Linux has it's fair share of problems, but you're tackling it completely wrong. Rather than flittering between dozens of different distributions / versions of Linux and then moaning when it doesn't work like Windows, why don't you pick a distro (eg Debian or Ubuntu), stick with it and then come on here and ask for help when you run into problems.

It's like learning to drive: if you had a bad lesson in one car, you wouldn't start trying to learn in a different car and blame the 1st vehicle for your bad lesson? You'd get back into the 1st car and keep at it until you've passed. And just like driving, I think once you've got your heard into the "Linux mindset" (eg using package managers rather than downloading your own programs, not worrying about install locations as they really don't matter and understanding what /etc/ is and how to edit those files), I think you'll find Linux is just as easy to administrate as Windows.
Edited by Plan9 - 2/2/12 at 1:55am
post #9 of 47
Well the way I see it you are trying to install about 4 very LARGE scale applications at once. (php, mysql, apache, symfony). Of course you are going to have problems. Those applications were not developed to be 'linear' type applications, they are supposed to be highly configurable and there for not "easy" to install. Then on top of it you are going to try and install them on a OS that you don't even know? Also why ubuntu server if you are going to be programming? That's not what servers are for.

My question to you is, if you know windows so well why not just install php mysql and apache on windows? Also installing those on windows is not exactly easy either. Which leads me to believe that maybe linux is not hard, but the applications that you are trying to use are hard.
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post #10 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin View Post

Well the way I see it you are trying to install about 4 very LARGE scale applications at once. (php, mysql, apache, symfony). Of course you are going to have problems. Those applications were not developed to be 'linear' type applications, they are supposed to be highly configurable and there for not "easy" to install. Then on top of it you are going to try and install them on a OS that you don't even know? Also why ubuntu server if you are going to be programming? That's not what servers are for.
My question to you is, if you know windows so well why not just install php mysql and apache on windows? Also installing those on windows is not exactly easy either. Which leads me to believe that maybe linux is not hard, but the applications that you are trying to use are hard.

o_O
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