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post #21 of 53
3/25/12 at 9:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chmodlabs View Post

I understand this. The overclocking perk is much more a consumer application not an industry one. The true aim of this research was to improve efficiency in regards to power consumption entirely and power used to remove heat produced by servers (ie. fans, heatsinks, then large hvac installations)
- chmodlabs

Makes sense somewhat.
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post #22 of 53
4/24/12 at 1:11pm
am the lead application development engineer in the heat transfer lab at 3M. We make Novec and Fluorinert liquids and I do a lot of research on their use for immersion cooling. Evaporative or 2-phase immersion cooling of servers can make sense if it is done properly. The primary advantages are increased POWER DENSITY and increased ENERGY EFFICIENCY. Air cooling of any variety is limited in this respect. You can have one but at the expense of the other. Liquid cooling in general can give you both but at the expense of varying levels of complexity. Among liquid cooling technologies, 2-phase immersion offers the highest density and the highest thermal efficiency with much lower complexity than its closest competitors.

Google Open Bath Immersion Cooling to learn more. I have some more videos on my YouTube site "petuma1"
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post #23 of 53
4/24/12 at 8:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Faze View Post

am the lead application development engineer in the heat transfer lab at 3M. We make Novec and Fluorinert liquids and I do a lot of research on their use for immersion cooling. Evaporative or 2-phase immersion cooling of servers can make sense if it is done properly. The primary advantages are increased POWER DENSITY and increased ENERGY EFFICIENCY. Air cooling of any variety is limited in this respect. You can have one but at the expense of the other. Liquid cooling in general can give you both but at the expense of varying levels of complexity. Among liquid cooling technologies, 2-phase immersion offers the highest density and the highest thermal efficiency with much lower complexity than its closest competitors.
Google Open Bath Immersion Cooling to learn more. I have some more videos on my YouTube site "petuma1"

Thanks so much for this input! This sounds really interesting and it's great to hear that the technology is being used in a semi-commercial state. My current energy removal process is currently in the process of being approved for intellectual property rights but to your knowledge have you seen or heard of similar systems?
Thanks again for this information,
- chmodlabs
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post #24 of 53
4/25/12 at 10:36am
I don't want to discourage you but recovering waste heat by converting to electricty or shaft power usually is not worth the effort. The efficiency is bound by the Carnot efficiency=1-Tc/Th. So even if you can capture the heat as a saturated fluid vapor at 70C (340K), you would have to reject the heat to an ambient at say 20C (290K) to complete your thermodynamic cycle. At best you could capture 1-290/340 = 14% of it. In reality, many other ineffiencies would likely drive this down to <5%. This usually doesnt justify the cost of hardware to recover it. Its far better to capture the heat as efficiently as possible and use that heat directly for some process like desalination, adsorption refrigeration or making beef jerky.
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post #25 of 53
4/25/12 at 12:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Faze View Post

I don't want to discourage you but recovering waste heat by converting to electricty or shaft power usually is not worth the effort. The efficiency is bound by the Carnot efficiency=1-Tc/Th. So even if you can capture the heat as a saturated fluid vapor at 70C (340K), you would have to reject the heat to an ambient at say 20C (290K) to complete your thermodynamic cycle. At best you could capture 1-290/340 = 14% of it. In reality, many other ineffiencies would likely drive this down to <5%. This usually doesnt justify the cost of hardware to recover it. Its far better to capture the heat as efficiently as possible and use that heat directly for some process like desalination, adsorption refrigeration or making beef jerky.

In some of my thermodynamic analysis I came up with similar results, around 12-14% could realistically be re-captured and used to slightly decrease power consumption in large scale server installations. But it still seems like 5% is still a decent amount of energy to recapture.
Thanks for your correspondence,
- chmodlabs
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post #26 of 53
4/27/12 at 1:16am
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Sorry, but then your "analysis" is off. Carnot cycle isn't a silly numeric value to assign efficiency. It is the upper limit.
Then combined with an inverter, storage or transfer of energy, and just friction within any given recovery device, even 5% might be over stating itself.
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post #27 of 53
4/29/12 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chmodlabs View Post

Well the entire enclosure and generator loop were custom machined and designed.
If you have a better explanation of what "off the shelf" means to you I could explain further.
- chmodlabs

off-the-shelf meaning: easily obtainable parts such as automotive radiators, swiftech pumps, etc.
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post #28 of 53
5/7/12 at 2:58pm
so this can cool a cpu without a heat sink, thats straight up crazt
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post #29 of 53
6/30/12 at 5:49pm
This is a great discussion.

I will apologize in advance if this question sounds a little ignorant but, at the end of the day would a commercial version of your 'novec cooled unit' save money in a commercial server farm by removing the cost of a large scale HVAC system and the associated cost of running it?

I understand the discussion around efficiency of the unit, removal of heat and alternatives etc but at the end of the day, if I was a big commercial player I couldn't care less as long as your saving me a big stack of cash and your units are reliable.

So, would your unit be competitively priced? Could I ditch my HVAC system and the cost associated with running it?

Cheers
G
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post #30 of 53
6/30/12 at 5:54pm
That was a heck of a necro, none-the-less I'm interested in an answer too biggrin.gif.
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