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post #31 of 91
Why would u send these in if u dont ur vd-t? I mean its the same silicone, no reworking....i dunno maybe im spoiled with my 5.2 ghz 3960x but i cant imagine anyone would think they can get a better overclock cus its c2. I could understand the d1 or d2 step but for lousy virtulization? Come on...
     
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post #32 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

Why would u send these in if u dont ur vd-t? I mean its the same silicone, no reworking....i dunno maybe im spoiled with my 5.2 ghz 3960x but i cant imagine anyone would think they can get a better overclock cus its c2. I could understand the d1 or d2 step but for lousy virtulization? Come on...

Not everyone is getting 5.2 or anywhere close to that. Also, neither you or anyone outside of Intel knows if it is truly new silicon or the same silicon with the virtualization enabled.

Please don't write "u" and "cus," you aren't on a chat client
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post #33 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

Why would u send these in if u dont ur vd-t? I mean its the same silicone, no reworking....i dunno maybe im spoiled with my 5.2 ghz 3960x but i cant imagine anyone would think they can get a better overclock cus its c2. I could understand the d1 or d2 step but for lousy virtulization? Come on...

If you don't have a decent chip, why not? Like I explained, down the road unless you have a golden chip C1 stepping resell value will be lower than C2 stepping.

If given a choice, you think people in the future wants to buy a defective product?
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post #34 of 91
First off i will say "u" if i please. If you want propoer edicate go type on the dictionary forums, im typing on a cell phone so i will do what is easiest. This is not the place for the grammer police.

Second, by sending ur chips in you are doing 2 things.

First, you are making a price drop impossible. You think intel will listen to all the screams about over priced hardware when thousands of people (mostly home users who dont even know what vd-t is)vtry and get a replacement chip? Hell no. This is part of the reason computer hardware is becoming more expensive. Obviously if your chip is truly messed up then by all mean rma it, But when people cry that they can only hit 4.5 ghz, thats just rediculous and would probably turn into hilarious irony when they get a c2 that only does 4.4.

Second, you are killing supply with these returns. Obviously no one cares if the guy next door can get achip or not if you have one already. But this just influences price hikes like you see on amazon.

You have to understand, your one little meaningless return affects many more people.

Its like people trying to rma their 7970's cus they wont overclock to 1200 mhz when they believe 95% of chips do. Its boarderline insane.
     
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post #35 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post

If you don't have a decent chip, why not? Like I explained, down the road unless you have a golden chip C1 stepping resell value will be lower than C2 stepping.
If given a choice, you think people in the future wants to buy a defective product?

What do u mean by defective? Because one feature that less than 50% use ( most likely way lower) got left on the cutting room floor? If you bought this chip expectong vd-t then you by all means u have a case and should return it. But the reality is that mist people wouldnt even know how to setup virtulization, let alonehardware accelerated virtulization.

And interms of resale value, have a look at ebay for a minute and u tell me c1 steps are comming down in price. At this rate, the supply is so low that no one cares what step it is. And if u believe intel is goin to boost production then i have a bridge in brookland to sell u. With ivy around the corner, they will focus their efforts on those stocks.
Edited by jomama22 - 2/6/12 at 4:29pm
     
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post #36 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

First off i will say "u" if i please. If you want propoer edicate go type on the dictionary forums, im typing on a cell phone so i will do what is easiest. This is not the place for the grammer police.
Second, by sending ur chips in you are doing 2 things.
First, you are making a price drop impossible. You think intel will listen to all the screams about over priced hardware when thousands of people (mostly home users who dont even know what vd-t is)vtry and get a replacement chip? Hell no. This is part of the reason computer hardware is becoming more expensive. Obviously if your chip is truly messed up then by all mean rma it, But when people cry that they can only hit 4.5 ghz, thats just rediculous and would probably turn into hilarious irony when they get a c2 that only does 4.4.
Second, you are killing supply with these returns. Obviously no one cares if the guy next door can get achip or not if you have one already. But this just influences price hikes like you see on amazon.
You have to understand, your one little meaningless return affects many more people.
Its like people trying to rma their 7970's cus they wont overclock to 1200 mhz when they believe 95% of chips do. Its boarderline insane.

I've always said that its insane to return a chip just because it doesn't overclock as high as you'd like it to. I don't think this is quite the same situation though.
post #37 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

What do u mean by defective? Because one feature that less than 50% use ( most likely way lower) got left on the cutting room floor? If you bought this chip expectong vd-t then you by all means u have a case and should return it. But the reality is that mist people wouldnt even know how to setup virtulization, let alonehardware accelerated virtulization.
And interms of resale value, have a look at ebay for a minute and u tell me c1 steps are comming down in price. At this rate, the supply is so low that no one cares what step it is. And if u believe intel is goin to boost production then i have a bridge in brookland to sell u. With ivy around the corner, they will focus their efforts on those stocks.

A lot of workstation users who don't need ECC RAM uses Core i7 on 2011 too, and to them VT-d are very useful (anywhere from GPU acceleration for rendering software to RAID in virtualization). Enthusiast only makes up a fraction of LGA2011 users. Intel originally advertised VT-d on 3930K and 3960X, it is two months before release that Intel announced errata and disabled VT-d. Obviously by then it affected a lot of people who already planned ahead. You may think it is useless, but it is not.

And yes, overtime stepping does have an influence on price.
Edited by trumpet-205 - 2/6/12 at 4:41pm
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post #38 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

First off i will say "u" if i please. If you want propoer edicate go type on the dictionary forums, im typing on a cell phone so i will do what is easiest. This is not the place for the grammer police.
Second, by sending ur chips in you are doing 2 things.
First, you are making a price drop impossible. You think intel will listen to all the screams about over priced hardware when thousands of people (mostly home users who dont even know what vd-t is)vtry and get a replacement chip? Hell no. This is part of the reason computer hardware is becoming more expensive. Obviously if your chip is truly messed up then by all mean rma it, But when people cry that they can only hit 4.5 ghz, thats just rediculous and would probably turn into hilarious irony when they get a c2 that only does 4.4.
Second, you are killing supply with these returns. Obviously no one cares if the guy next door can get achip or not if you have one already. But this just influences price hikes like you see on amazon.
You have to understand, your one little meaningless return affects many more people.
Its like people trying to rma their 7970's cus they wont overclock to 1200 mhz when they believe 95% of chips do. Its boarderline insane.

Unless you are typing on a phone with a keypad it takes no more time for you to type you than it does to abbreviate it. Obviously nobody can stop you from typing like that but by typing like that it is much harder to understand the point(s) you are trying to make.

PC hardware is not becoming more expensive. Intel CPUs have retained very stable pricing structure since the Pentium 4 days and before. The high end P4 cost 1000 dollars in 2004, no less than the 3960X in nominal terms. In real terms, taking into account inflation, the P4 would cost about $1200 in 2012 dollars.

http://ark.intel.com/products/27492/Pentium-4-Processor-Extreme-Edition-supporting-HT-Technology-3_73-GHz-2M-Cache-1066-MHz-FSB

Do you honestly think Intel cares what people are crying about when they have a virtual monopoly? They charge, and will continue to charge, as much as the market will bare. Despite people saying that X79 chipsets and CPUs are overpriced we see a distinct shortage.

I hardly think a company as large as Intel is sourcing from the same batch of ships for RMAs and Retail/OEM Sales. I am absolutely sure that there is a demarcation of supplies such that Intel estimates that x percent of C1 owners will RMA their chips and therefore sets aside an appropriate number of chips. Moreover, Intel does not directly sell to the consumer, nor does it sell directly to companies like Newegg. The price hikes you are seeing would happen even if nobody chose to RMA their chips; it is more than likely that Intel would simply write off the lower amount of returns as a profit on their income statement and produce less chips. By not RMAing the only thing you are helping is Intel's bottom line and hurting your potential resale value.

The example you give with the 7970 is completely different. AMD, and the AIB partners, make no guarantee as to how their chips/cards will overclock, there is no grounds to RMA the a 7970 for that reason and it is likely that the consumer will get their card sent back to them and be out of pocket for the shipping charges. Intel has made it clear that it will replace C1 chips, there is no reason to not RMA if you do not have a golden chip. It is much the same situation as with the P67 "Cougar Point" chipsets; although people did not necessarily use the SATA points that could have potentially failed, it was still nonetheless to RMA.
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post #39 of 91
I completely agree with both of you when it comes to both the minority ( us enthusiests) and the enterprise crowd ( i.t. admins and server monkeys). I think i took to broad of an approach and should narrow my tireless rant. I think my main problem is not with logical arguments that you have presented, but with this huge outcry of uninformed users.

Ill put it this way. I have a friend who uses 4 computers with 2 3960x on an evga sr2 (sorry the exact mobo escapes). He does film and photo editing for an independent film maker and just like most of us, he has to wait in line to get a chip. He has to use virtulization to be able to communicate properly with his co-workers and keep his workstations all on the same page (obviously i am over summerizing but i think u get the picture). What is interesting is that he is able to use vd-t and hardware acceleration just fine after the bios update (mid jan release i think it was) for his mobos. But as you said, c2 is a bit more than that and i completely feel for the enterprise users who stuck with 990xs and such to keep their compatability.

I dunno. I was ranting for pretty dumb reasons but it's just very discerning to see this amount of mis-information out there.

I lay this analogy out there because as i see it, the people who write on these forums are mostly users just looking for the best of the best and when it doesnt meet their expectations, they are ready with pitchforks and a board with a nail sticking out of it (simpson reference i hope someone sees lol)

Its like buying a car with 300 hp and then complaining becaus no matter how they tweak their ecu, the can only get 375hp out of it. Then, when a revised edition comes out with a cooled glove box (to keep ur drinks cold!), they all storm the dealerships demandng a replacement because their drinks get hot in their glove box(even though they dont use it for drinks) and they all think that because of this, they must have upgraded the ecu when they upgraded the glove box.

Its just silly and i apologize if i came off like a douche hah

Ps. +1 rep to both of "you" <--- sorry had to do it
Edited by jomama22 - 2/6/12 at 7:04pm
     
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post #40 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomama22 View Post

I completely agree with both of you when it comes to both the minority ( us enthusiests) and the enterprise crowd ( i.t. admins and server monkeys). I think i took to broad of an approach and should narrow my tireless rant. I think my main problem is not with logical arguments that you have presented, but with this huge outcry of uninformed users.
Ill put it this way. I have a friend who uses 4 computers with 2 3960x on an evga sr2 (sorry the exact mobo escapes). He does film and photo editing for an independent film maker and just like most of us, he has to wait in line to get a chip. He has to use virtulization to be able to communicate properly with his co-workers and keep his workstations all on the same page (obviously i am over summerizing but i think u get the picture). What is interesting is that he is able to use vd-t and hardware acceleration just fine after the bios update (mid jan release i think it was) for his mobos. But as you said, c2 is a bit more than that and i completely feel for the enterprise users who stuck with 990xs and such to keep their compatability.
I dunno. I was ranting for pretty dumb reasons but it's just very discerning to see this amount of mis-information out there.
I lay this analogy out there because as i see it, the people who write on these forums are mostly users just looking for the best of the best and when it doesnt meet their expectations, they are ready with pitchforks and a board with a nail sticking out of it (simpson reference i hope someone sees lol)
Its like buying a car with 300 hp and then complaining becaus no matter how they tweak their ecu, the can only get 375hp out of it. Then, when a revised edition comes out with a cooled glove box (to keep ur drinks cold!), they all storm the dealerships demandng a replacement because their drinks get hot in their glove box(even though they dont use it for drinks) and they all think that because of this, they must have upgraded the ecu when they upgraded the glove box.
Its just silly and i apologize if i came off like a douche hah
Ps. +1 rep to both of "you" <--- sorry had to do it

You example didn't fit, because cooled glove box was never advertised prior hand. In Intel case VT-d was advertised prior hand. Keyword is "prior hand".

It IS possible to enable VT-d on C1 stepping. Intel stated that if you DO enable VT-d on C1 stepping you are responsible for any regression it might happened. Meaning VT-d on C1 stepping can cause problems, and Intel are not responsible for any problem caused by turning VT-d on. if you want 0 problem on VT-d you need C2 stepping.
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Windows 7 Professional x64 (Host) Crunchbang Linux x64 (Guest) HP 2311x HP PS/2 Keyboard 
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Rosewill Capstone 450 W Rosewill Challenger Logitech M570 ASUS Xonar D1 
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Hauppauge HVR-1250 
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Misaka
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-3570K ASRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3 Sapphire HD 7850 2 GB Samsung DDR3 16 GB (30 nm) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 128 GB WD Caviar Blue 1 TB Lite-on DVD Burner Thermalright Venomous X 
OSOSMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 Professional x64 (Host) Crunchbang Linux x64 (Guest) HP 2311x HP PS/2 Keyboard 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Rosewill Capstone 450 W Rosewill Challenger Logitech M570 ASUS Xonar D1 
Other
Hauppauge HVR-1250 
  hide details  
Reply
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