Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [ctv]Canadian-made HIV vaccine approved for human testing
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[ctv]Canadian-made HIV vaccine approved for human testing - Page 10

post #91 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittensMewMew View Post

if anything the placebo group will have higher than average infection rates due to some idiots thinking they're immune and not taking precautions.

What are you talking about? The individuals don't know which group they're in. So why would the placebo group have more people thinking they're immune and not taking precautions?
Taijin Kyofusho
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-6700K ASUS Sabertooth Z170 S EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW Crucial Ballistix Elite 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 PRO 256GB Samsung 850 EVO 1TB MyDigitalSSD 960GB NZXT Kraken X61 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 10 Pro LG 34UC88-B Corsair Strafe RGB Cherry MX Red Corsair RM750x 
CaseMouseAudio
NZXT S340 Corsair Sabre RGB HiVi Swans M10 
  hide details  
Reply
Taijin Kyofusho
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-6700K ASUS Sabertooth Z170 S EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW Crucial Ballistix Elite 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 PRO 256GB Samsung 850 EVO 1TB MyDigitalSSD 960GB NZXT Kraken X61 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 10 Pro LG 34UC88-B Corsair Strafe RGB Cherry MX Red Corsair RM750x 
CaseMouseAudio
NZXT S340 Corsair Sabre RGB HiVi Swans M10 
  hide details  
Reply
post #92 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faraz View Post

What are you talking about? The individuals don't know which group they're in. So why would the placebo group have more people thinking they're immune and not taking precautions?

We are not going to use responsible people in this trial. The researchers need high risk individuals. Young gay men, Intravenous drug users and female sexual workers have the highest rates of infection. Don't tell me that when you were 20-24 you didn't make stupid decisions based on faulty logic. Gay or not, 20-24 year olds are stupid when they're horny and having the thought "I have that vaccine" while drunk will probably contribute to less cautious sexual behavior. And if you did heroin on a regular basis/sold your body on the street I don't think you're too concerned with protection either. That is just conjecture though.

If you have access to a university database, read this:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/sim.4780131922/abstract

http://smm.sagepub.com/content/9/3/207.abstract

Or this:

http://www.vaccineethics.org/issue_briefs/HIV_clinical_trials.php

I'm not the only person who has raised ethical issue with vaccine trials. People WAY smarter than me have.
It's A Computer!
(13 items)
 
Also a Computer!
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K Gigabyte Z68X-UD4 Asus HD 5850 G. Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 WD Caviar Black Samsund SH-S223A Antec Kuhler 920  
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 Home Samsung 2443BW HAS Silverstone Strider Plus 750W NZXT Source 210 Black 
Mouse
Logitech G500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD PII X4 965BE MSI 790FX-GD70 ASUS HD 4850  G.Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Intel X25-V WD Caviar Blue Samsung S222A Thermalright Venomous-X 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 64 Home Samsung S23A Corsair TX750W NZXT Source 210 Black 
Mouse
MX 518 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Lapped e2180@3.0GHz Gigabyte GA-G41M-ES2L 9500GT Patriot DDR2@800MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Hitachi 500gb Windows 7 Viewsonic 19" Cooler Master 500W 
  hide details  
Reply
It's A Computer!
(13 items)
 
Also a Computer!
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500K Gigabyte Z68X-UD4 Asus HD 5850 G. Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial M4 WD Caviar Black Samsund SH-S223A Antec Kuhler 920  
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 Home Samsung 2443BW HAS Silverstone Strider Plus 750W NZXT Source 210 Black 
Mouse
Logitech G500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD PII X4 965BE MSI 790FX-GD70 ASUS HD 4850  G.Skill Ripjaws 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Intel X25-V WD Caviar Blue Samsung S222A Thermalright Venomous-X 
OSMonitorPowerCase
Windows 7 64 Home Samsung S23A Corsair TX750W NZXT Source 210 Black 
Mouse
MX 518 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Lapped e2180@3.0GHz Gigabyte GA-G41M-ES2L 9500GT Patriot DDR2@800MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorPower
Hitachi 500gb Windows 7 Viewsonic 19" Cooler Master 500W 
  hide details  
Reply
post #93 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittensMewMew View Post

Placebo effect in a vaccine that will last for 3 years? Come on. You'd have to be dense to think that the placebo effect has any bearing in vaccine trials.

If it didn't have any bearing, then it would be extraneous and wouldn't be included. At the very least, it eliminates researcher bias by making it double-blind. As a matter of fact, I finished up a brief critique of Thomas Chamberlin's discussion of investigative approaches earlier today for my experimental design course, which seems very fitting in the discussion of bias elimination-

http://www.geology.und.edu/gerla/gge487_488_494/chamberlin1890science.pdf

Regarding your ethical concern, I completely disagree. They're getting paid to go about their lives as they would if they weren't in the trial. They're explicitly informed they could get the placebo. As soon as volunteerism is involved, ethical concerns like that are thrown out the window, as far as I'm concerned. I have very staunch black and white opinions on ethics, though. I have absolutely no qualms about letting them go about their lives as normal for the sake of proper research.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittensMewMew View Post

Necessary to see if the vaccine is worth it, but still letting people die.

To be honest, this is a stupid argument. They'd die either way. If you want to complain about people not always doing as much good as they possibly could, you have bigger things to worry about than a voluntary drug trial. This is nitpicking of the highest order.
Edited by aroc91 - 2/8/12 at 9:49pm
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 SABERTOOTH X58 Gigabyte GTX 970 Corsair  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD 320GB WD 1TB Hitachi 1TB CM Hyper 212 Plus 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Windows 10 Pro 24" Sceptre 20" Asus Corsair TX750 
Case
Antec 1200 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 920 SABERTOOTH X58 Gigabyte GTX 970 Corsair  
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
WD 320GB WD 1TB Hitachi 1TB CM Hyper 212 Plus 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Windows 10 Pro 24" Sceptre 20" Asus Corsair TX750 
Case
Antec 1200 
  hide details  
Reply
post #94 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittensMewMew View Post

We are not going to use responsible people in this trial. The researchers need high risk individuals. Young gay men, Intravenous drug users and female sexual workers have the highest rates of infection.

In a good study design, the groups are selected to make sure such factors are distributed among placebo and active drug groups to make sure one group isn't at a higher risk for getting the infection. And this is exactly how we'll know if the vaccine works! You compare rates of infection and perform statistical analysis to determine significance.

So you're saying it's unethical to ask for volunteers from high-risk populations to take part in a trial where they won't know if they're getting placebo or a drug? Tell me how exactly getting a placebo will harm a prostitute who is already engaged in severely risky behavior.

Also, you said the placebo group will have higher rates because they'll think they're immunized. Why would only the placebo group think that? You mean everyone will think they're immunized, which I don't think they will, because I'm pretty sure being able to use your brain won't be an exclusion criterion for the trial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aroc91 View Post

Regarding your ethical concern, I completely disagree. They're getting paid to go about their lives as they would if they weren't in the trial.

This. This. This.

If they choose to increase their risky lifestyles or start doing more and more risky things, that's their own fault. How the hell is it the researchers' doing?
Edited by Faraz - 2/8/12 at 10:01pm
Taijin Kyofusho
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-6700K ASUS Sabertooth Z170 S EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW Crucial Ballistix Elite 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 PRO 256GB Samsung 850 EVO 1TB MyDigitalSSD 960GB NZXT Kraken X61 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 10 Pro LG 34UC88-B Corsair Strafe RGB Cherry MX Red Corsair RM750x 
CaseMouseAudio
NZXT S340 Corsair Sabre RGB HiVi Swans M10 
  hide details  
Reply
Taijin Kyofusho
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7-6700K ASUS Sabertooth Z170 S EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW Crucial Ballistix Elite 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 PRO 256GB Samsung 850 EVO 1TB MyDigitalSSD 960GB NZXT Kraken X61 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 10 Pro LG 34UC88-B Corsair Strafe RGB Cherry MX Red Corsair RM750x 
CaseMouseAudio
NZXT S340 Corsair Sabre RGB HiVi Swans M10 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Technology and Science News
Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [ctv]Canadian-made HIV vaccine approved for human testing