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[WCCF] Intel Roadmap Shows 22nm Haswell based Processors in 1H 2013 (March-June) - Page 2  

post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by pursuinginsanity View Post

Intel, you keep breaking my heart. First 1156 - 1155. Now 1155 - 1150? What could have been so important that they needed to remove all backwards compatibility and remove 5 whole pins. *facedesk.*
I'm going to go out on a limb and bet Haswell-E will be on a 2007 pin socket.

It is a good thing in a way because new socket won't hold back new design. I imagine reusing AM3+ has hurt BD potential.
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post #12 of 46
LOL is all I can say for this...so much for LGA2011 longevity rolleyes.gif Transitional socket. I'm sticking to LGA1366/X58 as long as I can...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Wow look at how little change there is in the entire lineup throughout 2012. This is what a lack of competition does...

Not sure how much this has to do with lack of competition from AMD, but I'd be surprised if it does not play at least a small part in it...

Lastly, as for the socket "holding" back innovation as somebody else said earlier, that's a bunch of BS, especially since you are seeing a reduction in number of socket pins.
Edited by dejanh - 2/9/12 at 9:08am
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post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

Ok, you are officially an idiot. No, that is not what I am saying. Reduction of pins is the result of simplification of design but that has nothing to do with performance. However, simplified design also does NOT mean that you have to redesign the whole socket. They have options, and lots of them to keep the sockets going, but there is no commercial interest in doing so.

What about LGA775 then? For example a LGA775 MB with Intel 915 chipset supports Pentium 4, but not Core 2. Despite the fact that Core 2 family uses the same socket. In that case it doesn't matter if the socket is the same, you need to buy another motherboard anyway. Given Haswell is a major change compared to SB/IB, I am very doubtful that SB/IB chipset can support it. Also socket gets change every 2 year, hardly to be considered unreasonable.
Edited by trumpet-205 - 2/9/12 at 9:30am
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post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumpet-205 View Post

What about LGA775 then? For example a LGA775 MB with Intel 915 chipset supports Pentium 4, but not Core 2. Despite the fact that Core 2 family uses the same socket. In that case it doesn't matter if the socket is the same, you need to buy another motherboard anyway. Given Haswell is a major change compare to SB/IB, I am very doubtful that SB/IB chipset can support it.
Speculation is speculation. Both of us are speculating. However, there are strong reasons to assume that Intel is simply doing what is easier and more commercially viable to them and their partners. This is not something that you can just ignore in the name of "innovation". As I said, there is every reason to assume that the changes will not be as radical a you think, especially with a lack of pressure from any competition. However, again, I am speculating so I could be wrong.

I can tell you one thing for sure though that goes back to your original comment...no chip maker would hold back performance of their own chip to save a socket so you do not have to worry about BD being crippled by AM3+. BD is crippled by AMDs puny R&D budget when compared to Intel's and the complexity of its never-before-tried architecture. Further iterations of BD may go either way and the outcome remains to be seen.
Edited by dejanh - 2/9/12 at 9:33am
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post #15 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

Ok, you are officially an idiot. No, that is not what I am saying. Reduction of pins is the result of simplification of design but that has nothing to do with performance. However, simplified design also does NOT mean that you have to redesign the whole socket. They have options, and lots of them to keep the sockets going, but there is no commercial interest in doing so.
Further to this, if SB/SB-E is any indication you can hardly expect a radical redesign the likes of which you have seen with C2D architecture moving to Nehalem. There is no need for socket changes. They could get by just fine with existing sockets.
It would be considered reasonable if the socket changed every 5-6 years, instead Intel is now heading to a 1-year cycle, primarily because they can.

Keeping a socket layout means you must maintain backwards compatibility. Backward compatibility is nice for the end user, but it's often quite a bit more expensive to produce, because now any new features you want to include somehow have to work with older CPUs.
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post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Keeping a socket layout means you must maintain backwards compatibility. Backward compatibility is nice for the end user, but it's often quite a bit more expensive to produce, because now any new features you want to include somehow have to work with older CPUs.
Agreed, but I still do not consider 1-2 year life cycle for a socket to be reasonable in any way. As I said before and you reiterated in your own words, it's more economical (read commercially viable and profitable) for Intel to not retain the same socket. After all, what do you think is going to change so radically with Haswell? 6-channel memory? Doubt it. The NB is already gone, so done that also. Integrated graphics core? I do not think so, not in enthusiast grade chips. Radically different graphics core for mainstream chips? Perhaps, but knowing Intel I doubt this too. New instruction sets? Sure, but that does not impact pin-outs as much. So what is it then? More PCI-E lanes? Who cares really...how many graphics cards do you want to put into a desktop before you really say enough is enough.

Anyway, I am just ranting...I personally prefer socket longevity and true innovation in design and I am not liking what I am seeing right now. That's all smile.gif
Edited by dejanh - 2/9/12 at 9:47am
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post #17 of 46
This is how the roadmap is going to look like:1156--->1155--->1150---->back to 775 tongue.gif
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post #18 of 46
This should settle the socket argument.

I guess no IB-E because SB-E didn't sell as well as they hoped so they want to recoup the costs by prolonging the platform. It looks like the mainstream version of Haswell will be capped at 4 cores like IB to protect the SB-E platform with the main focus (for most consumers) being the faster GPU. The inclusion of AVX2 and transactional memory would provide advantages in multi-threaded and HPC applications so we might see a HW-E in the second half of 2013.
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post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seeing Red View Post

This should settle the socket argument.
I guess no IB-E because SB-E didn't sell as well as they hoped so they want to recoup the costs by prolonging the platform. It looks like the mainstream version of Haswell will be capped at 4 cores like IB to protect the SB-E platform with the main focus (for most consumers) being the faster GPU. The inclusion of AVX2 and transactional memory would provide advantages in multi-threaded and HPC applications so we might see a HW-E in the second half of 2013.
Why do we have to suffer for the fact that Intel delivered a $h1tty solution with LGA2011/X79? Truth is that other than quad-channel memory, SB-E brought nothing to the table that Gulftown/Westmere could not already do. Oooh-ahhh, 10% more performance clock-for-clock? Big deal rolleyes.gif

I had a lot of hopes for LGA2011/X79. I thought that it was going to be the platform for me, but no matter how hard I try I cannot justify buying it, even for benching. It's a sad affair for me. The future is not looking any better either. It may be as much as 2 years still before Intel offers anything that I consider a worthy upgrade from LGA1366/X58 paired with Gulftown.
Edited by dejanh - 2/9/12 at 11:17am
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post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post

Why do we have to suffer for the fact that Intel delivered a $h1tty solution with LGA2011/X79? Truth is that other than quad-channel memory, SB-E brought nothing to the table that Gulftown/Westmere could not already do. Oooh-ahhh, 10% more performance clock-for-clock? Big deal rolleyes.gif
I had a lot of hopes for LGA2011/X79. I thought that it was going to be the platform for me, but no matter how hard I try I cannot justify buying it, even for benching. It's a sad affair for me. The future is not looking any better either. It may be as much as 2 years still before Intel offers anything that I consider a worthy upgrade from LGA1366/X58 paired with Gulftown.

I agree it lacks strong motivation, but it does bring some new features.

Do take note that,

* LGA2011 eliminates north bridge chipset. PCIe controller is now inside the CPU itself (40 PCIe lanes vs 36 PCIe lanes from 1366).

* LGA2011 introduces the following
--> 2 SATA 6.0 Gbps ports and 2 more USB 2.0 ports
--> VT-d (starting at C2 stepping)
--> AVX
--> 2 more PCIe lanes for PCH (8 vs 6 from 1366)
--> DMI 2.0 is now used for the interconnection between CPU and PCH. (20 Gbps vs 2 Gbps on 1366 X58 to ICH10).

* Possibilities of 4 CPU running in square with each CPU uses 2 QPI to interconnect (not possible on 1366 given that 1 QPI is used on northbridge).
Edited by trumpet-205 - 2/9/12 at 11:36am
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