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[Kotaku] Blizzard and Valve go to War Over DOTA Name - Page 7

post #61 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Technically, while the EULA doesn't provide/explain direct ownership of the game, itself...It does own the mechanics that the game was based on...I.E. the code.
Which actually wasn't really changed; it was virtually copied over to DOTA.
Thus my initial remark.
While I am surprised Blizzard waited this long, had they done something originally about DOTA, which was 100% within their rights to do, they wouldn't be having this issue, either...
As I said, I'm neither for, or against either side but, if I basically hijacked your code from something I developed on YOUR software...Then went with another developer to make a 2nd game only, didn't even hide the fact it was YOUR original code...Wouldn't you be a little pissed off, too? -- Just sayin.

Icefrog is the developer who made Dota more popular. Other devs worked on Dota but abandoned it. I wonder if these prior devs regretted not developing Dota further instead of leaving it deprecated.

Icefrog got signed by Valve. Dota 2 uses the Source engine so the code is different.
Edited by Riou - 2/10/12 at 8:50am
post #62 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post

Icefrog is the developer who made Dota more popular. It was his code and mechanics. Other devs worked on Dota but abandoned it. Dota became really popular once Icefrog worked on it. Then the LoL and HoN's came out years later.
Icefrog got signed by Valve. Dota 2 uses the Source engine so the code is different.

Not as much as you seem to think it is.

Regardless of who made it popular it wasn't designed on their developed platform, it was taken from another entity and transferred to the same entity.

It's essentially hijacking...When you think about who owned the original rights to the property.

The new engine for DOTA didn't even hide the fact that the mechanics had virtually, never changed...It was essentially the same sandbox-environment that existed on WC3.

Yes, once Icefrog made CHANGES, it became very popular, again not changing the original base of the game.

I'm very aware of how this proceeded because I'm actually a huge fan of DOTA AND had my own popular version within WC3...So I happen to be EXTREMELY familiar with the original/current mechanics of this game and -- SURPRISE, they haven't changed.

Again, the original platform and from that which it was developed, was not LEGALLY his to develop from and branch out with.

It's almost like the Saleen Mustang...Saleen buys the car from Mustang and then changes the design to make it a Saleen -- They pay for the right to do that because the base vehicle is owned by another company as is 90% of the components.

Same exact situation -- Icefrog built his success on someone else's shoulders and not only refused to give them credit but, is now developing with a competitor and the base idea/code etc STILL has not changed significantly since the game's initial "release".

Blizzard absolutely has the right to sue Valve...In fact, if it were me, I'd be going after property rights as well considering the above...
post #63 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Technically, while the EULA doesn't provide/explain direct ownership of the game, itself...It does own the mechanics that the game was based on...I.E. the code.

Which actually wasn't really changed; it was virtually copied over to DOTA.

Thus my initial remark.

While I am surprised Blizzard waited this long, had they done something originally about DOTA, which was 100% within their rights to do, they wouldn't be having this issue, either...

As I said, I'm neither for, or against either side but, if I basically hijacked your code from something I developed on YOUR software...Then went with another developer to make a 2nd game only, didn't even hide the fact it was YOUR original code...Wouldn't you be a little pissed off, too? -- Just sayin.

Please take this as a clean debate point:

DOTA did not "hijack" WC's code. Blizzard hands out the tools that allow us to use their code freely, just as Valve hands out Source SDK. Yes, the developer of DOTA would have had to pay for a license to sell the DOTA mod for a price, just as Source and Unreal (Red Orchestra, among plenty of others) mod developers have to. I highly doubt that Valve can go after someone who built a Source game (let's take Vindictus for example) who then went off to another publisher/developer to create Vindictus 2 on a totally different engine. In this situation is that DOTA2 is NOT using WC's code; it is being built around whatever engine Valve is using, maybe Source. Blizzard shouldn't be within their right at all to stir a big deal over it. DOTA2 is being built on a totally separate engine.
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post #64 of 221
I am pulling for Valve because Blizzard has done crap to help develop and maintain DOTA. They had all the chances and time in the world to hire the modders and develop the mod into a game they could publish, just like Valve did with CS and Portal. Blizzard chose not to do that and lost a great opportunity.
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post #65 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post

Please take this as a clean debate point:
DOTA did not "hijack" WC's code. Blizzard hands out the tools that allow us to use their code freely, just as Valve hands out Source SDK. Yes, the developer of DOTA would have had to pay for a license to sell the DOTA mod for a price, just as Source and Unreal (Red Orchestra, among plenty of others) mod developers have to. I highly doubt that Valve can go after someone who built a Source game (let's take Vindictus for example) who then went off to another publisher/developer to create Vindictus 2 on a totally different engine. In this situation is that DOTA2 is NOT using WC's code; it is being built around whatever engine Valve is using, maybe Source. Blizzard shouldn't be within their right at all to stir a big deal over it. DOTA2 is being built on a totally separate engine.

Dude, we never agree so -- I'll agree to disagree.

Yes, the code was OS but, I'm making the point that their success was garnered based on something that was clearly not theirs to begin with.

I do agree that if they re-developed the game under Valve/Source, that's a bit different but, as a beta office...I tend to hear a tremendous amount of rumors...Rumor has it, they didn't change it much, if at all which, is actually quite possible.

Intellectual property is a big deal...And considering the original DOTA was founded on a sandbox of WC3 -- I believe Blizzard has more of a right to it than Valve, does.

Blizzard was basically given no credit for the original DOTA even though, it is their base.

I'm not a fan of either...Which, I'll say, again but, as someone who also developed DOTA, I do believe personally, that Blizzard has more of a right to the DOTA name than Valve does.
post #66 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Dude, we never agree so -- I'll agree to disagree.
Yes, the code was OS but, I'm making the point that their success was garnered based on something that was clearly not theirs to begin with.
I do agree that if they re-developed the game under Valve/Source, that's a bit different but, as a beta office...I tend to hear a tremendous amount of rumors...Rumor has it, they didn't change it much, if at all which, is actually quite possible.
Intellectual property is a big deal...And considering the original DOTA was founded on a sandbox of WC3 -- I believe Blizzard has more of a right to it than Valve, does.
Blizzard was basically given no credit for the original DOTA even though, it is their base.
I'm not a fan of either...Which, I'll say, again but, as someone who also developed DOTA, I do believe personally, that Blizzard has more of a right to the DOTA name than Valve does.

Game mechanics != code
post #67 of 221
Blizzard is gonna lose this.
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post #68 of 221
Quote:
In 2010, Valve - who is working on a successor to the original called DOTA 2 - began attempts to trademark the word "DOTA", despite the fact it had no historical connection to the property or the genre.

sorry but the bad guy here is valve. IMO neither company have the right to the DOTA name. If they had tried to trademark "DOTA2" then all would be fine.
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post #69 of 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goaky View Post

I'm not certain who I agree with here honestly. On one hand, the original DotA was made with the WCIII Editor and played in WCIII, but on the other hand IceFrog is with Valve.. not sure what to think. I hope Valve gets to keep the name and they come to some sort of an agreement.

Ive got to side with Valve.
Blizzard couldnt be bothered to trademark the name, or to put backing behind a second one, so valve swooped in and took it.
Valve loves mods and the mod community, Blizzard seems to wish they didnt exist.

Its fairly shady, but blizzard seems to spend just as much time sitting around and twiddling its thumbs idly as valve does.
(ok, a little less, but still)
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post #70 of 221
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Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Blizzard was basically given no credit for the original DOTA even though, it is their base.
I'm not a fan of either...Which, I'll say, again but, as someone who also developed DOTA, I do believe personally, that Blizzard has more of a right to the DOTA name than Valve does.

I understand where you are coming from, though personally I don't believe Blizzard deserves any credit at all. The premise and gameplay of DOTA has nothing to do with W3's name, lore, or games. Blizzard did not financially support or help develop the mod. Blizzard even had first dibs to not only hire the modders to license DOTA. They have done NOTHING to warrant any sort of credit.
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