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post #41 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

I know this is bound to insight a flame fest but.........
This is why many power users, like myself, have moved from Linux and Windows to OS X.
Say what you want about idevices or apple is this or that but if you want the best UNIX on the planet you want a Mac. With a program like vmware fusion, one can run windows right on the desktop and even have windows apps appear on your Mac desktop in their native format.
Ad to that things like Silverlight, Creative Suite, and many other commercial apps and you have the best of both worlds.
You can run most Linux apps right on your Mac as well, even entire desktop environments through X11 if you need to.
Hate all you want but OS X does it all.

Mac OS X, being a "commercial" operating system, naturally has support for most of the common commercial applications, such as Photoshop and the things you mentioned. Companies will develop software for closed platforms that they know they can sell it on.

I'm not sure who told you Mac OS X could run Linux applications though. There is no compatibility layer for running Linux applications on Mac OS X. Granted, they could be ported, being both operating systems are POSIX compliant (I think) and Unix-like. And although there is an implementation of X.org available for Mac OS X, it doesn't mean you could port, say, KDE and run it without issues. It serves more as a compatibility layer for other software.

Not trying to flame you or anything, just wanted to clear some of your points up.
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post #42 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Lawnchair View Post

Mac OS X, being a "commercial" operating system, naturally has support for most of the common commercial applications, such as Photoshop and the things you mentioned. Companies will develop software for closed platforms that they know they can sell it on.
I'm not sure who told you Mac OS X could run Linux applications though. There is no compatibility layer for running Linux applications on Mac OS X. Granted, they could be ported, being both operating systems are POSIX compliant (I think) and Unix-like. And although there is an implementation of X.org available for Mac OS X, it doesn't mean you could port, say, KDE and run it without issues. It serves more as a compatibility layer for other software.
Not trying to flame you or anything, just wanted to clear some of your points up.

What the crap are you talking about?

http://community.kde.org/Mac

Read first, post later.


[edit]
http://www.macports.org/


You don't really port linux, or it's applications you build them. You build them against the tool chain of the kernel/system utils. Linux is the kernel, not the applications, so of course you can "port" stuff. You can build anything as long as you build the proper libs against the system/kernel.
Edited by mushroomboy - 2/14/12 at 3:22pm
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post #43 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

What the crap are you talking about?
http://community.kde.org/Mac
Read first, post later.
[edit]
http://www.macports.org/
You don't really port linux, or it's applications you build them. You build them against the tool chain of the kernel/system utils. Linux is the kernel, not the applications, so of course you can "port" stuff. You can build anything as long as you build the proper libs against the system/kernel.

I don't even...

I understand that Linux is a kernel and the whole building process. For the sake of simplicity I described it as an OS. And I never said that it was impossible to do what he described. All I was saying that the implementation was obviously not designed to do that.
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post #44 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Lawnchair View Post

Mac OS X, being a "commercial" operating system, naturally has support for most of the common commercial applications, such as Photoshop and the things you mentioned. Companies will develop software for closed platforms that they know they can sell it on.
I'm not sure who told you Mac OS X could run Linux applications though. There is no compatibility layer for running Linux applications on Mac OS X. Granted, they could be ported, being both operating systems are POSIX compliant (I think) and Unix-like. And although there is an implementation of X.org available for Mac OS X, it doesn't mean you could port, say, KDE and run it without issues. It serves more as a compatibility layer for other software.
Not trying to flame you or anything, just wanted to clear some of your points up.

No flame taken, but most of what you said is not correct. Even though I understand where you are coming from you actually make my point very well.

Most "Linux" software, especially the command line variety, can simply be recompiled for OS X. As far as a compatibility mode, I assume you are referring to something like the FreeBSD Linux compatibility packages that allow running Linux native code on FreeBSD, and to that I'll just say that OS X is based on FreeBSD, and even though I've never tried it personally, I'd bet you could in fact run Linux binaries on OS X using the BSD packages.

Most of the things that keep an application tied to a particular platform are the libraries. So if you can install the libraries and execute the binaries, you are running the app.

That is how Wine works on Linux, is impersonates the Win32 libraries and makes the apps think they are running on windows.

Mac doesn't have to do that because you can install most of the libraries natively, KDE, GTK+, X11, etc.

My point was that OS X is the only major OS that can run apps from all of the big three operating systems and look pretty doing it. wink.gif

I actually think that OS X is the reason Linux isn't more popular than it is. It's not out of Microsoft's big heart that they port office and silver light, it's because they don't want anti-trust again so Linux is the loser.

If there was no OS X, then we'd have office and silver light on Linux.

Edit: to keep fanboism at bay, I use all three OSes and they all definitely have there purpose.
Edited by gsa700 - 2/14/12 at 3:52pm
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post #45 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

Most "Linux" software, especially the command line variety, can simply be recompiled for OS X. As far as a compatibility mode, I assume you are referring to something like the FreeBSD Linux compatibility packages that allow running Linux native code on FreeBSD, and to that I'll just say that OS X is based on FreeBSD, and even though I've never tried it personally, I'd bet you could in fact run Linux binaries on OS X using the BSD packages.

I realize that. I was also trying to emphasize that porting software between Unix-like is usually trivial. The actual kernel is quite a bit different than FreeBSD's, even though it is technically based on it, so you couldn't simply run the FreeBSD Linux compatibility layer, it would also need recompiling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

I actually think that OS X is the reason Linux isn't more popular than it is. It's not out of Microsoft's big heart that they port office and silver light, it's because they don't want anti-trust again so Linux is the loser.
If there was no OS X, then we'd have office and silver light on Linux.
Edit: to keep fanboism at bay, I use all three OSes and they all definitely have there purpose.

Linux is pretty much doing well on every platform except desktops. Android is very popular, it's still the preferred operating system for servers, and there are a lot of other miscellaneous gadgets that run Linux. Why it's not doing well on desktops is still up for debate.
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post #46 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Lawnchair View Post

I realize that. I was also trying to emphasize that porting software between Unix-like is usually trivial. The actual kernel is quite a bit different than FreeBSD's, even though it is technically based on it, so you couldn't simply run the FreeBSD Linux compatibility layer, it would also need recompiling.

I think you are correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Lawnchair View Post

Linux is pretty much doing well on every platform except desktops. Android is very popular, it's still the preferred operating system for servers, and there are a lot of other miscellaneous gadgets that run Linux. Why it's not doing well on desktops is still up for debate.

Yes indeed. I have linux on both of my folding machines and my web server (LAMP) and even my phone. But I think a lot of what holds it back is just no commercial app support. Even a simple thing like flash player is just so second rate on Linux it's not even worth it at all. ( to me)

I used linux as my main desktop from 1996 to 2001 but I went back to windows 2000 and then to Mac because it is just a lot more polished and stable.

I think I'm pretty typical in that department.
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post #47 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

It's still Linux. That's like me saying Windows doesn't have support for .pptx files, and then saying "That is PowerPoint."

Except windows does have support for .pptx files. It runs the office suite natively, instead of emulating and compiling it to cross-platform the software for the OS you are trying to avoid.
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post #48 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsa700 View Post

I think you are correct.
Yes indeed. I have linux on both of my folding machines and my web server (LAMP) and even my phone. But I think a lot of what holds it back is just no commercial app support. Even a simple thing like flash player is just so second rate on Linux it's not even worth it at all. ( to me)
I used linux as my main desktop from 1996 to 2001 but I went back to windows 2000 and then to Mac because it is just a lot more polished and stable.
I think I'm pretty typical in that department.

I won't go into specifics but I guess you're lucky not to see the pinwheel of problems often or enjoy long standing well documented security issues get patched up whenever the hell Apple feels like it. OSX(Mac) isn't any more polished or stable than a well maintained distro/user system the difference is who is in charge...some company or you the end user? Again....freedom/responsibility are always second rate to convenience in people's choices. Hell, compared to a Gentoo user I'm probably still sacrificing freedom for convenience. As for the going Linux then Windows then Mac....I got to say you're the first I've ever heard of doing that.
     
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post #49 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by S.M. View Post

Except windows does have support for .pptx files. It runs the office suite natively, instead of emulating and compiling it to cross-platform the software for the OS you are trying to avoid.

WINE: Wine is not (an) emulator.

wink.gif

Wine adds the Windows API to Linux via black box reverse engineering, hence, any applications you install under Wine are effectively natively installed under Linux. No different from using Compatibility Mode in Windows or additional software adding support for new file formats which was my point. It's a separate application to the OS/Distro that adds new APIs, etc to Linux that help with the Windows API support, just like how Office is a separate application to Windows that adds support for .docx, .ppt, .pptx, .xls, etc. If Linux running a program flawlessly (I can understand it not counting even if it runs fine after tweaking the wine profile, etc) using a third party/separate program to the OS/Distro isn't native then unless every copy of Windows comes with a copy of Office, the same applies.
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post #50 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Lawnchair View Post

I don't even...
I understand that Linux is a kernel and the whole building process. For the sake of simplicity I described it as an OS. And I never said that it was impossible to do what he described. All I was saying that the implementation was obviously not designed to do that.

The implementation was designed to build xorg applications on OSX. I ran OSX for almost a year, it's actually really nice that you can build stuff just like you can in Linux. If they didn't have that design in mind they wouldn't have ever released the tools for us to build xorg applications into OSX, we would have had to write the code ourselves and THEN start "porting" applications. They knew darn well why they were making X11 the intentions of such a program. It was built so that we could have xorg on OSX without getting into their proprietary code, and then they released the libs so we could build programs against the system to run them. EXACTLY THAT. They didn't have any specific program in mind, it's X11 and dev tools.... You don't ever release tools like that and go "well, we released them because we wanted people to do X with them". No, you release them so that people can do whatever they possibly can. it stirs creativity and expands the software base, honestly it is one of the smartest things they have ever done.
Edited by mushroomboy - 2/14/12 at 10:39pm
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 4.6GHz@1.44v GA-990FXA-UD3 R4.0 HD 7950 (1100/1450) 8G Muskin DDR3 1866@8CLS 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
1TB WD LiteOn DVD-RW DL Linux/Windows 19" Phillips TV 1080p 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
OCZ 600W Generic Junk Logitech MX400 Generic Junk 
Audio
SBL 5.1 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Software News › [Toms] Ubuntu 11.10 vs Windows 7